Caroline Mays - No One Gets Anywhere Alone

Welcome to the real people. Real business show way. We are talking with business owners who are in the trenches everyday . People who are working hard and have relevant and inspiring stories that you can relate to. Everyone that we speak to is actively building and growing their business and is here to share their experiences, their lessons, their wisdom, and their guidance so we can be inspired to take action towards our own goals. All right , so my guest today is no exception. She has been through the trenches and she has some amazing stories to share. This is one of my favorite human beings. So without further ado, I am so excited to welcome Caroline Mays who is an artist. She is a copywriter. She is a writer who works with people who are building their own personal brands, who are thought leaders, who are speakers to help them really tell their own story and create a representation of themselves that they are super excited to put out into the world. And she has such a unique style and such a unique approach to the way that she does her work. So I'm so excited to have you on today. Caroline, you have been in business for a little while and you are currently doing a little bit of a pivot to some new offers and I can't wait to hear about them. So welcome to the show Caroline and thank you so much for taking the time to share your story today.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Stephanie.

Yeah, I'm excited to , uh , I spend a lot of time with Caroline and I know so much about her business and so much about her and so I'm going to have a hard time not jumping in here, but I've got some questions for you and I am totally cool with you just riffing on the answers and given me some really cool meaty stuff to work with. And I think that's what our listeners are here to hear as well. So let's start with the basics. How did you get here? Like how did you get started? What was that big trigger for you to Start Your Business?

Oh Gosh, that, that story is so , um, ubiquitous. It's out there where people are like , um , working in some damn job. And I was like my, it was one of many dumb jobs. And so it was, I wanted to get out of that and I always avoided copywriting even though it seems like maybe a , a logical thing to do just given, you know , education and background of like a liberal arts degree. And so, but I just didn't want to, I consider myself a bit are definitely an environmentalist of sorts. I don't, I mean I'm not out there saving the whales, but I just didn't want to, I just didn't want to talk into buying much crap they didn't need. Right. But then the service industry and the idea of working with people to sell their services and what they do it be kind of , it came like it could, I can imagine it and I could yet . And so anyway, I just dove into classes and teaching myself kind of the , the, about copywriting and like sales copywriting even though there are so many different kinds of copywriting and then just started finding my way through all that. Yeah. And I work with a lot of copywriters just for some reason and there is, there's a whole spectrum, right ? And , and you know, I think at one point in time I had 10 clients who were copywriters and each one of them was different. Each one of them had a different little niche sort of focus. So like the word copywriter for me is really kind of general. And so how do you kind of define writing in your own sort of scope? I tell people that yes, I might say I'm a copywriter, depending on the mood, depending on the situation. If you say you're a copywriter, then they'll just be like, oh okay. And turn around and you know , business issues are , we'll just go on with their day. But I say , I tell people that I , I deal in the art of the bio short and she bio is such this funny thing too because when you think people think all kinds of things when they think of the word bio. But I, I think of it as it's short for biography. And so that is taking your big long, complicated many years comparably at this point story and condensing it into something cohesive. Do you use for your business and your message because it does contain or message. So were you a writer from the beginning? Like where did you come from? War ops for some reason I thought you were like in nursing school or something. No, I just made a joke about how I, well when I was learning how to do copywriting, I would Google nursing school like variously once a week cause I'd be like, are you sure you can't do this? But I, I'm, yeah, I have a gag reflex. I can't deal with [inaudible] and mucus , no way. And so, and my brother's girlfriend is a , is a nurse and I've, I've heard her horror stories, no nurses. And so anyway, probably wouldn't make it in that world. But yeah, I would say I've been, I mean I've been a writer, I've written Ma , you know, my whole life. But I started taking it seriously, I guess like investing in classes and, and that range from fiction to a nonfiction since like 2007. So, and I've had the pleasure of working with some really amazing people like Lydia Yoke NAWIC , which she is a big time author who has a lot, has a cult following. I've worked with, I've had a class with Roxanne gay before. Um, and uh , you know , all she's , so anyway, it's like, not to name drop, but I just, but it's so important to invest if that's where, you know, if that's what you want to do on some level, you know, even if you just want to be as an artist and not necessarily be copywriting.

Right . And so what was that point where you were like, you know what, this could be a business. I'm going to try that out.

Okay . Um , well, so there's this book called the wealth Fed writer and I was working and I was working at the community college in North Seattle. And , um , the , like everyone that worked there was like dabbled in writing and some sorts or they just enjoy working with ELL students. And um , the guy that ran the department was, he was in theater and he wrote plays and you know, so these are all people that that right. And then they have a day job, right? And so it's like, how do you, how do you be a writer and have a day job, you know, and, and still do your, do your thing, do your art. And so anyway, he told me about this book and it's super, at least when I read it, it's with super outdated. It's like, you know, send out flyers and you know, basically like kind of the knock on doors approach. And then that kind of tipped me just, you know, everything Kinda sh points you in the direction that you need to be going, like each little thing that you do. And so somehow I kind of fell into, like I said, like the online world and digging into online classes. And then I was taking a design class actually, and they, I, I saw they had a link to one of ash, amber J's blog posts . And so that's how I found her. And I was like, what the hell is going on over here? And so, and it was at some point, look, you know, on going through ashes stuff where I, it hit me like it was just that, that Aha moment that might have occurred to other people much sooner than it did me . But it was all these copywriters will try and teach you some kind of formula. Like, this is how you write this kind of thing, this is how you write that kind of thing. And then it hit me. I was like, oh, she's just a writer. Like she's , she's a , um, like a humorist and she works in this, in this, you know, and she does copywriting. And so then it was just like, oh, she's being creative. It's on, you know, so then it was a shift,

right ? So you, so you made this, this thing, this entity, and you are , your business is called switchblade lemonade. So, first of all, tell me where that came from. What's the name all about?

Well, I was doing kind of general copywriting at first and I , I cycled through , um,

okay .

One or two yum names and then I was, I was thinking about how you, you know, you're trying to kind of curate and condense yourself into this, this personality or having this online image and you know, it's all kinds of different stuff. And it was kind of like a , a like a play on and not exactly a play on, but it was sort of a play on

sugar and spice and everything. Nice. You know, and then

snails and nails and puppy dog tails, like all those things that kind of go into making people. And so anyway, I was looking for two words that had juxtaposition. So anyway, and that's where it eventually

I ended up. And I think what's so unique about you is that you have so much meaning in your words. Like a written piece by Caroline is , is like a curated piece of art and, and [inaudible] everything you name and everything that you talk about has so much meaning. And so you have a signature offer called the box cutter bio. And honestly, even though I've been working with you for so long, I actually didn't know the meaning of the box cutter until, I dunno, like a few weeks ago. Right. And so it's , it's about getting yourself out of the box, right?

Right. Yes, yes. And in my, I have like a media bio , like a short form bio on my homepage. It's about like [inaudible] switchblade, lemonade , the business, and it says something like , um , like we try and fit ourselves into these paragraphs that are really these coffin shaped box that you're expected to lie down. And like, there's really a structure to things and you're trying to fit yourself into that structure and that's what doesn't work. And so, at least in my humble opinion, and so anyway, so it was kind of, yeah. About cutting out of that and, and reshaping it, so into just something that , um , yeah, it's more,

yeah . And so you've got, you are like in my mind sort of uniqueness personified, but if you were to think through your industry and the industry you were in, the, you know, the, the, the company that you might keep in the copywriting world, what sets you apart? What's so unique about your approach or about the way that you write that you think is kind of your big differentiator? Um ,

I have a way of,

I tend to attract people that have a lot to stay,

you know, and they have kind of all these multiple threads that they're trying to pull in.

And so Aye ,

I think I have a way of looking through all of that kind of like sitting in the matrix of all that stuff and

binding

the message, finding the wording that kind of says it all, you know, and building up to that point where we say it all, where we dropped that line, that kind of nails it. And that's messaging that you can take with you, like in your person. Cause now you kind of, you have a firmer , like real tangible grasp on what you're doing. And also, yeah , I , I look back at some of the clients that I've worked with and they've put things on their homepage and they're using it in social media and I mean, they're just running with it and going with it. And so it's, yeah, there's a, it's a natural disposition and narrative to kind of look into the story and pull all the meaning out of that.

And you know, one of the things that we struggle with as business owners, and you know , I just got off a call not too long ago that where are the very , the same thing came up and it's like, we know what's unique about us, but we often have a really hard time kind of communicating that and also building that into the offers that we have and the way we do our work because it's so easy to sort of fit back into the kind of cookie cutter business model because it's worked for others. So why wouldn't it work for me? So, how have you taken that kind of uniqueness that you have and built that into the way you talk about your business and the way that you deliver your work and structure your offers? That's a good question. You know, I'm, I'm actually,

you mentioned the pivot earlier and , um ,

that's , yeah , I, when I first started out,

you know, it was about Bios , cause I had these examples of bio's and as I've worked with people more and more and more , um , it's become so clear that it's, the work's just gotten deeper and that's just what's gonna happen when you niche down. And so, and you just understand things better and your [inaudible] perspective breaks open a little bit more, you know, in terms of what you're doing.

And so,

so I am talking about what I'm doing differently and I still want to send people away with Bios , but I want to send them away are away as well, like with their stories and with their messaging, with the way they need to. Okay . Talk to their clients who may have a different , um , opinion than they do. Or they have a way of telling their story that maybe it's kind of a taboo, sorry , in certain circles, especially the professional world. But yeah , you shouldn't , and talk about it in such a way that it's , um, where it's , it's not, it doesn't feel people would dread to like hear your story. And so,

alright . Am I answering your question? Did I gamble ? You are, and I think one of the points that you made is really important for a lot of people to hear. And, and this is something that I think is really common that you've evolved, right? And we , we kind of have these, the, this idea that things have to be decided done and dusted once. But what you've done a good job of is sort of listening, watching and responding to the things that you've learned and heard from your audience. And these businesses that we run are fluid. They are fluid, they morph, they grow, they emerge, they change. And if we don't allow them to be that and we don't allow them to do that, we get stock , right? If we are. So we , we're wearing our like cement shoes and we're digging our heels in and saying, this is the way things have to be because I've already decided this. This is what this is when we don't grow, right. When we don't allow ourselves to fit into all of the nooks and crannies that actually work really nicely for us. Right ? Yeah. And it can be really Harry because,

so you're kind of known for this particular thing. And sometimes it's just a matter of talking about that thing differently

always.

So you're saying it differently yourself. And so , um, and you're not really gonna know what [inaudible] Ah , what the evolution evolution is until your hearing. Does the chatter come back to you like sometimes two months later when someone emailed you and he's like, oh my God, no , this work that we did together, you know, here's what I've done since then, and the catalyst for this or that thing. And , um, and then you're like, it would , it's amazing to hear. And wonderful to hear, but you want , what is, what is that all about? And so yeah, you kind of have to experience the ripple effect.

Yeah. Yeah. And you've done a really good job of experimenting, right? And, and like poking around and trying things out and not being afraid to kind of push the boundaries and , and, and make decisions quickly. Right. This didn't work or this did work, or Oh , here's something that feels good. Right. And I think you've been really receptive to that and kind of, and I'm kind of on that note, like we talked about growth. What does growth really mean to, because when I talk about growth, I think about it in a lot of different areas and growth in the kind of traditional internet business world means money. And in my mind, growth actually means , um, means change on a lot of different axes. So in your personal business, in your own experience, what have you kind of grown around in terms of your priorities and what does growth mean to you?

That's a great question. Growth to me , um, has meant really falling in love with, with my business. You know what I mean? At first everything kind of starts out with like, here's how I'm going to make some money. Right? Then you start working with actual people and you start falling in love with them. And it just is, it's just been about having a , like a deeper perspective and a deeper connection to what I am doing.

Um , and I'm motivated by that. I wish I was, I wish I was more motivated by money. I mean, I am to a point , um , but I would say it's not that [inaudible]

the thing that like gets me out of bed. I'm , I'm a very , um , uh , I'm an idealist and so yeah, growth to me is making some kind of contribution

and I like to ,

I think that bringing our humanity and our stories into the business world is a way to make the business world better. And so anyway. Does that make sense?

Yeah, I love that. And so growth for you has been, I mean, we all, we're all in business too to make more money. Right? And that doesn't, that's not a bad thing that like , listen, you don't have a business if you're not making money. So by nature of the fact we're in business to make money. So I think we , we all need to like get rid of that, that silly statement that it's not about the money yet is about the money. Cause otherwise you're running a charity. But if we just take that as sort of a given that we're all trying to, to grow our profitability so that we can continue to serve, I'm interested in what growth is around that. And it sounds like for you it's that you really want to make this impact in this change in the business environment and bring, and this I love the way you, you call it bring more humanity into business. And I think in some sense, you know, I'm , I'm after that too, right? I want this to be real. I want this to be relatable. Um, and so in terms of what you consider to be growth in , in, in your business, whatever, that kind of organically means to you, what has really worked for you? What have you seen as results around and what, what's like, what feels good for you? Well, I had been doing more

coaching, yes. The word we're gonna use around people's writing and because , um , yeah, some people really do want to write their own stuff and that has been, it's just an , it's something that I really enjoy and didn't know that I was going to enjoy, which I should have known that I was going to enjoy because I have, I've done so many workshopping classes, you know, and helped people, you know, nerd out over their stuff. That's what you do is you sit back and you, you don't , uh, you don't correct. It's you and there's no judgment. Like you take on people's stuff. You look at what the temps are that they're trying to make and what they want to do. Like you can see it if you're a good, it works shopper, right. And um , and find what's working in the piece , right. And help people, man , you know , maybe get rid of the things that aren't. And so working with people on something as intimate as their writing. Um , yes, that feels like growth and in the sense that I'm doing something that I really enjoy and then yeah , clients get a lot out of it. And then I had a client, we're going to be working on a book, which is, that's, that's a , that's a big growth thing for me because I've never helped anyone write a book , um , full disclosure and they know that. But yeah, I've written enough and it, yeah, it just feels like it just feels natural, which means that the way that I've been riveting or attempting to pivot and it's kind of opened up this little opportunity and it's like, okay, then we're, we're sniffing along the right track here. So, yeah.

So you're moving towards what feels good. And this is something that we talk about a lot, right? Like notice what something feels like for you. And I love that you kind of can characterize what is attractive to you by the word intimacy. Because the thing that the, what you write is so much about intimacy . It's so much about, you know, of all the kind of commercial copywriting you can do, the piece that you rights and that you focus on is so, so intimate. It's probably the most intimate piece of work that you can do as a freelance copywriter, isn't it?

Right. Yeah. I know that's kind of surprises me that, that, yeah. But I , um , I dunno . I, why write anything that isn't it ? I don't know . I , you know, it's , um, I mean, and you can, you can be funny, you can be a lot of things in an intimate piece of writing, but , um, letting people in in the door and you know, and again, having boundaries in place, that's part of writing too . It's having your fine , you know, you what people know and don't know. So it's not like, I mean, maybe I as the person who's helping someone through their writing is hearing some extra stuff that, that may or may not make it into the piece. Right. Um, but yeah, we get to decide what those things are and that still , um, yeah, being really honest and intimate with the reader. So important to have boundaries with the reader. One of the things that I come across a lot with people is that business owners have what I call the curse of the expert, right? They know their business too well and they get really committed to a particular idea or a particular way of doing things or a particular something and they , they kind of lose sight of what else is out there or what their audience really cares about. And so in a, in a way, I see there's a lot of sort of parallels in the work that you do because you need to be able to help your clients navigate what they feel really emotionally committed to. Um, right. And so how does, how does that work? Like how do you do that? How do you, how do you take something that's that , that someone feels so strongly about that but that, you know, doesn't serve their story and help them move through the emotional connection to that piece? In my experience, it's normally been like, it's not so much that they're hanging on to the wrong thing. It can be that they're hanging onto the wrong way to say it right in a car in a better way to say it kind of drives you deeper. It , it opens up more pers , you know , more possibilities into, into, yeah, like what you're actually saying and then what you would like to say more of, you know, like yeah, there can be kind of a , um , kind of a snowball of that we're hitting on something that's kind of what you were saying, but it's a little bit different. Okay . Yeah, it makes a ton of sense. Yeah. So we've talked about what kind of works for you in terms of your growth, right? And growth in all of these other, these dimensions. Has there been something that has like definitively not worked for you that you've gone towards and then just go , ah, this is not where I need to be because I think that's as important as knowing what does work for you is knowing what doesn't. Right. Well, I was exploring the idea and I'm still not, I'm not cut off to it cause I do like variety, but I was exploring the idea of working with agencies right on kind of more on like all the website copy that someone would need . And I've done all the website copy that people need on their sites before. And um, okay . Yeah, I mean it's, it's fine. It's great success. Like [inaudible] we did it, we nailed it. And I just got yesterday actually a client sent me a link to their side that's up. And it was so cool to see everything working. And we're , when I see like excerpts from sales pages that I've written on social media, I'm like news and that's pretty cool. But again, kind of back to working with people on that intimate level with their story, it's just, it's just more fun. It's just , yeah. And so I wouldn't say that. Oh, and back to the agency thing. I mean, I would get online and look at what agencies were doing and the clients that they were working with. Um, you know, client like, like red bull and Subaru. And, and those, those types of clients and it just didn't , um, I would find myself procrastinating. I'm just letting that particular agency slip back. I've never emailed them. And so anyway, yeah. Um, that's, that was, I guess that's kind of a red flag. But again , um, if someone called me up, maybe, I dunno . It depends on yeah, depends on what's going on in the calendar I guess.

Well and I think you make a really good point that you listened to your body and I think we don't do that enough. Um, and , and the , the signs that something is not in alignment with you and you know, I talk about alignment all the time is that you procrastinate, you find something else you'd rather do. If you are saying I should

[inaudible]

it's really you're saying I wish I didn't have to.

Right.

And I think it's an important lesson for entrepreneurs to learn that your, your gut and what you feel is the most important thing for you to listen to because your brain can tell you that all sorts of things are important. But if you're not going to get behind them, there is absolutely no point in you doing them. Right . And that's okay. You don't have to be like everyone else. You can have your own profile of what works for you and what doesn't work for you. And maybe it's a bit weird and it's totally fine, right. What, what we need is the things that are going to sort of drive you forward.

Right, exactly. And you have to determine like when you're just kinda being a wimp and aren't doing something that you know, might be good for you, and when , um , it's just kind of, you're just not that interested. Uh, so yeah, it's, it's a tricky path to navigate. And I'm always, I'm [inaudible] , I mean, I'm a fan. I just, I tend to do this anyways. I'll try it and see how it goes, you know? But , um, yeah. But I do know for sure that working with people on their stories , uh , it is definitely really morning.

Yeah. That meaningful content. Yeah . Yeah. So tell him I said, okay . So I want to ask you [inaudible] what has, what's , what's been the most pivotal moment in your business so far?

Oh my God.

Something. What's been so impactful for you?

No. Impactful for me. Well, if we go way back to the beginning, I would say doing this [inaudible] to begin with has been really impactful because it's just, I mean, you can toil away on things for years, you know, as banner all this and, and so doing the work, like really niching down on the bio. Like that's how the opportunity to do the video came up. Like that's how, you know , I got featured twice. Um, you know, with some really big names and it's just, I dunno, it's kind of provided. It was, it was a tipping domino that tipped over more dominoes and, and has again gotten, gotten me to this point.

Well let's talk about this video for a second. Cause you referenced the video, but we haven't really talked about what that is yet. And in my mind, I think that that video has, has provided one of the more pivotal moments in your business. Yes . All right . So why don't you tell us about the video?

So the video was okay sometimes. Yeah. So it was a, it was a lucky thing. I , yeah , I've seen it online where people get really like kind of twitchy about talking about luck cause they're like, I worked my ass off. There was no luck involved in this. And it's like, I'm sorry, but you don't, no one gets anywhere alone. You just don't,

oh wait, can we just say that again? Yeah . No one gets anywhere alone. Oh, I love that. I'm writing that down.

Right. But you have , but, but there is work involved, like you're doing the work. Right. And then that enables some luck to come your way. And so I just happened to be, you want me to tell the story of how the video , so I just happened to be , uh , I was living in northern California. I get a text from my cousin who's like, hey, we're hanging out on the coast. And I, this is my, my, my fellow artists cousin who is a little bit older than me. Um, I don't see him much live in Baltimore. And he's like , um , um , you want to come hang out, you know, we're getting this airbnb. And I was like, yeah, well, and I just like mood. I just moved a little mountains in my schedule and just made it happen because I wanted to hang out. And so I go out there and we're in this super cool airbnb where we're chilling out, hanging out, drinking some wine, and we're having that, like, what are you been up to for the past eight years since I've seen you? And so I'm telling you about my website and then I'm over like talking to his wife later. My cousin price is like messing around on my website and he's just over there freaking out. He's like, these have such a visual component. He's reading my bio and my samples and he's like, oh my God. Like we should, we should make a video. And I was just kinda like, yeah, let's do it. And so we got up the next morning to shoot, you know, a lot of the footage that was the, in the video. And , and then they left , you know, and he , and he went home and we ended up , um , you know, kind of working on it from afar and then , um, he and Jamie put it together and then it was so, it was kind of like a marketing tool for their company and ended up being like a huge marketing tool for my company. But, and I , and I, for me, that is a litmus test of a really well told story is if you could make it into a short film, because the visual components are there, the storytelling components are there, you know, and you should be able to do that. So anyway, so when I'm writing for other people, whether or not they're going to get a video made out of that or not , um , that is my intention is that it could be, they didn't, she was so,

and what happened with that video?

So I was in , um, the girlfriend's group, ash ambers age girl, girlfriend group. And I just, and so I had it and I just, I just, I didn't even post it. I was like, oh, I was asking a question. W like, do you guys , so I have this thing, you guys, and I don't really quite know what to do with it yet, and it's on my website. But anyway, and someone said, we'll post it. And so I posted it in the Facebook group and yeah, it's Kinda been, it was just a windfall since then because then ash, amber j saw it. I wrote about it on our blog and then I was on , um, the wealthy speaker podcast, but with Jane Atkinson, and she has a huge audience and that's what kind of opening opened me up to the speaker, author crowd. And so, yeah, the story of the ,

so that was, there was a big uptick in, in interest and kind of your business at that particular moment because ash sends out this email, she's got a huge audience, and all of a sudden everybody wants to work with you. What happened then?

So what happened was a crazy year of working from her from that. Um, uh , from that experience, from her blow me up on the blog and then also from that podcast interview. And so basically I kind of , my prices were going up, right. And then I kind of , uh, got to a point where, and again, this is where the word bio kind of comes in , it can be limiting, but it also can be a great thing cause everyone knows that they need a bio. Right? But then how much are people willing to invest and a bio. And that's when it became apparent that I had to start talking about this differently because again, it's not just a bio. There's all these different things okay . Do with it. And so, so yeah, but it, and it was like, it was the price point fit that made me realize that there needed to be either some more education around it, some more, you know, a different way to talk about it. Even though I feel like I'm talking about it all the time. Yeah. It's been a really interesting exercise in kind of figuring out where people place their values and kind of interesting commentary on how much they value themselves. Yes. Um, okay . That is so true. You know, I've had, yeah, I've had this happen one time and then kind of, well, okay , maybe like 1.75 times to be exact, to be exact according to my calculations, but I have had someone say to me , um, I love this. I don't know that I'm cool enough to live into this peace . And she was just so wrong, you know, like, she was so cool. Um, but you know, and like in , in the crafting of the bio, it was like, yeah, I'm all about it. All about it, super excited, super excited. Oh my God, you're catching me. But then when it came time to like use it and be done, it was like this really , um , just interesting reaction, you know, where it was like, I don't, yeah. Nerves and nervousness about showing up in this kind of way. Um , yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't w I will never, ever, ever embellish anything isn't about embellishing. It's about, you know, crafting something that's really interesting and beautiful to read and reveals a truth that cannot be there without crafting something beautiful. And so anyway, it was a , it was an interesting reaction.

That is so that's fascinating. And how much your work intersects with emotion. Right. And , and that's a, that's a real thing for you.

Yeah. Oh yeah. People cry in a good way to [inaudible] . Yeah. It's not just that kind of stuff. It's just like, I am crying and you know, and um , because it's so, yeah. I mean, it feels good to be understood, but also for your story to hit the mark, to hit the emotional mark because , um , it's hard to do that. You know , we , you can tell the story, but if you're not getting at the, at the why it matters to the reader, then it's , it's not, you're , we're missing it.

Right. Well, thank goodness they have you to put so much power behind their experiences. Okay .

Thank you. And willing to do think about it a lot. Yeah .

I imagine it's confronting, right? Even in a good way.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I do. A lot of , um, people go, no one's ever, I mean, they might be surprised when they get the initial piece that we're working with, but there's revisions. It's not like I send people away with like good luck with that. What I just wrote about you. I'm Brown and we coach and we talked through it and we [inaudible] you know, cause people will say like, oh, I know I said that, but it's actually a little bit more like this and we make those tweaks and adjustments. Um, so that people walk away happy, but at the same time, it's not just about pleasing people. You want them to walk away with like, okay, you know , I got it now. So, so you have , uh, the wherewithal to use it.

Yeah, I'm breathing into my story. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love it. I love gives me tingles. Every time I read your stuff it gives me tingles. Okay. I'm going to , I'm going to shift the question here a little bit. Um, you know me and a lot of, a lot of what I focused on is making things real. Right. And you know, this, my group is called the real deal business group and this whole series is called real people, real business. I, you know, it's a, it's my own personal bias against some of the things that, that make business owners feel less than or feel like they're not achieving. In your mind, what is, what do you think the biggest gap is out there between real and what we kind of hear in the online business world?

Oh God. Wow . I've been thinking about this a lot. So, so one thing that's happened for that I've experienced is , um, okay , we kind of focus on building numbers like building lists, building followers, building all those , um, is online pools of people and like what does it matter if you don't really know how to engage with it? And so anyway, one of my goals has been and continues to be building up my network of people, not just online but in the actual physical world. Um, right now I live, I mean, I live in Portland now as of last October. And so , um, so I , um, I , I, you know, I'm privileged in the sense that there's people around me and there's groups that exist and I can do this, like go pay some money and be part of them and um, get introduced from there. And whether or not they turn into clients or not, it's like there's something about people knowing you and then like referring people to you and having a business can study that is super important. That at least I can't really , um , feel it so much online. And so I , that whole bit, nope, no one's really talking about, you know, is like , um, is having having a business network, like a real genuine network, not just an online Halloween . Um , and yeah, I do wish there was more transparency back to like what I was saying earlier about this [inaudible] about like you , no one gets anywhere alone. We have these, these archetypes out there, these, these untouchable, brilliant people, these business owners online. And it's as if they did it all themselves with their brain. And it's like, even if you just had a business background, like that's an upper hand that , you know , that's luck that not other, not to say you didn't earn that thing, but like [inaudible] we're all starting from different places and the circumstances and the choices we make. Okay . Those little co , that combination is what creates what it is or you know, or what could be. And so anyway, I think, well , I think we're just missing the whole, the whole story or the whole fleshed out version of like what really happens and how people get to where they are. And so it can create a lot of , um , uh , don't know . It can just kind of take, it's just some blows to yourself , esteem when you're working your butt off and just feel like you're not getting anyway. So yeah,

I couldn't agree more. And that's a lot of the impetus behind trying to, trying to build a show around people who are like [inaudible] , not celebrities

and who are doing things that are just as achievable to all the people who are listening. Right. We're all in good company, right? Yeah. And there's, there's nothing wrong with slow growth and that's probably gonna be how it is when you are, when it's not 2008 and we're not all getting in on the beginning of the Internet way.

Yeah . Slow business baby. I will, I will stand behind it until the cows come home and I will, I, that has been the number one piece of feedback in my group program that everybody loves the pace, right. Because I force it, I forced them to go slow and to absorb because that's real and that's what happens in business.

Right. And that's how you're going to make those intentional decisions and not just like spin your wheels and some kind of like [inaudible] opportunities lists area. So.

Totally. Yeah. All right . What do you wish you knew before you got started?

Well, I know , I wish I knew . Um, okay . [inaudible] already mentioned the networking. Um, that would have been good to know . Um, yeah.

But the, the, the engagement in real life.

Yeah. It's so important right now. Life is so important. Yeah. Um, but also something that I really firmly believe is that my, just being naive in the first place is what has allowed you to like, dare and do anything. So I don't tend to, you're like, I wish I had done that . Then the , the networking thing sooner, I think it would've just made things easier, but I don't, it's not like I regret it because , um , no , you don't know what you don't know. One. And also , um , me in the past, like it's so amazing how a business makes you grow, but like the idea that I would be like talking to certain types of people and they would be my friends and they would be working with them. I would be working with these x marketing vps . I would be like, ah , you know, I don't know people like that. Like , um , that would be scary, you know, to like to think about it well , where you're going to be. And so anyway, just being a little naive can , um, get you daring and not to like go forward into the next phase that , yeah. But definitely if there's anyone listening and you don't have your network built up, start working on that because , um , yeah, it'll just make things less than one,

be a human, right. People want to do business with humans, they to do business with humans.

And there's so many good networking groups out there that are very welcoming. I think the old fashion networking groups could be like shark tanks maybe. But again, I'm in a really great place. Portland, Oregon is a great plays in my experience so far is that everyone's just like welcome. Yeah, I do on all. Like there are people in this group that I belong to, the don't have a website yet and there are people that are very, you know, accomplished. And so , um , anyway, so I love that. That there's, cause then, then you have a chance to help, which makes you know your life better. And then also, yeah, it can be helped.

Yeah. Portland is my, my second home and I agree there's a really unique and very special community there that , um, that has, you know, has open arms and it's been wonderful. Yeah. So what's next for you, Caroline?

What is next? Is this new service that , um , where I'm going to be addressing , uh , what everything that we've talked about a little bit more, again, intentionally aware . Yes. People walk away with Bio's , what we're going to slow down, delve deeper into the story. I want to work with people too are onboard with the idea of telling a story. Um , and so they're , they're mind spaces is in the right place for that. Um, [inaudible] and then uh, yeah, I want to do more basically just more of what I'm doing. I want to do more , uh , coaching people through nearby owes and this whole book writing thing is really fresh. I'm super excited about it. And um , yeah.

Yeah, it's an exciting move for you for sure.

Yeah. So talking to people about,

yeah. So in order to get there, you know, this is in the interest of this group being a really strong community. What kind of support do you need in order to get there?

Aye . Well, like as I've said, just be my friend, like show up and I'm, I'm wanting to talk. That's such a hypocritical statement, say out loud because again, that's what I'm working on is showing up , um, in person and online to the groups that I belong to. And so , um, so yes. So if , if everyone shows up then, then we've got, you know, we've got a lot of action. Yeah.

All right , so show up. You're asking others to show up as well.

I'm asking you others yeah . To show up and let's do the same .

All right . I agree. Okay. My Lady, it is been so awesome chatting with you. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak to everybody today. I know there are going to be people who have questions for you who want to connect with you and I encourage you all to connect with each other, to reach out to Caroline. She is amazing. She is so much fun. Can you tell everybody where they can find you?

Yes. Um, switch boy, eliminate.com . I am boy eliminate on Instagram. Um, yes, we give out my email address or just go and I live .

Nah, that's okay. With that . I'll just put it, we'll put your, we'll put all of your profile and everything in the show notes and if there's anything that you want to include, you know, if you have something that your listeners would like to download or go check out on your site.

Um , yeah, I do have, I have a do it yourself downloadable guide called bio. Like Beyonce. You don't have to be a Beyonce fan. I don't understand why you wouldn't be a, Beyonce is very Beyonce centric. She's like the prime example that I use in this

because I want people to

kind of, I want to , I want to blow people's minds open on what's possible. And it's, it's a , it's really about , um, digging down and finding the story

and getting it written .

And so anyway, you can read about it on my site. And also I want to add that I'm on linkedin now too, so if you're on Linkedin,

yeah, go find her on Linkedin, Instagram and on her website. Go watch her video because it's amazing. It is one of the best marketing videos I think I've ever, ever seen. And it's totally, totally you, Caroline. And I think that, you know, if I could sum up the personality of Your Business, you live you entirely in your business and I have seen you kind of create these boundaries around exactly what you want. And I, I love that. And I think what you've done is you've created this brand and this persona that is so perfectly you and you've studied, stood by it.

Thank you. Well I have good help , Stephanie . Yeah .

All right . So no one does anything alone. Exactly . Thank you Caroline. That is an amazing gift for everybody to have heard your whole story and everything that you've learned. And I encourage everyone to go check out Carolina and, and uh, God work with her because you will get a piece of art no matter what you do with it. You will get a piece of art or you'll be on your way to creating your own piece of art. All right. And that is a wrap for this episode. Such an amazing conversation. I mean, I talked to Caroline pretty much every day , but I could continue talking to her now for probably hours, but make sure and go check her out on her website and her awesome bio like Beyonce. Um, and thank you tuning in today to hear this story, this episode that you're listening to, these are all featuring members of my free private Facebook group called the real deal business coaching group where we have daily prompts to keep you focused on building your business and sharing your everyday challenges too. That's what we're here to do. We have biweekly Virtual Coffee Chats , open coaching and member support from this incredible community. And if you'd like to join our community or if you would like to be featured on this show, I'd love for you to come and , uh, get with us, hang out with us in this group, the links in the show notes or search up the real deal business coaching in Facebook to find us. And finally, I would love for you to join us for our next [inaudible] episode where we are going to be diving in with another member from the group. And , uh, you know, getting some awesome perspective with , um, Lindsey prof shots who is running a business called pure gift boxes and she is in my local hometown and she has created a beautiful brand and she is supporting local businesses and I can't wait for you to hear from her as well. So thanks again for being here. And if you've enjoyed today's content, I would love for you to give me a review on whatever platform you're listening to this on and help us share these stories with an even bigger audience because I am determined to make sure that everyone out there building a business knows that there are real people doing the same thing, struggling with the same things, solving the same problems as them. So until next time I am cheering you on over here.