Kristen Zavo - Finding Fulfillment in Work and Life

Welcome to the Real People, Real Business Show. My name is Stephanie Hayes and I'm a business strategist and coach who loves to speak with like minded entrepreneurs to share their real stories and the gritty details on building their businesses. On this show, you won't hear about the glamorized entrepreneurship journeys that you see online. You won't be told how to make six figures in six weeks. Instead, you can expect to hear real, vulnerable and inspiring stories you can relate to that have helped create the foundation for each of. Businesses. Goodbye, Boss babes. Hello, real life entrepreneurs. Today I am so excited to welcome Kristen Zavo. Kristen is a career coach, keynote speaker, and author of the international bestselling Job, Joy, Your Guide to Success, Meaning, and Happiness in Your Career, in her coaching practice she works with to help high achieving professionals, land jobs, launch businesses, and build careers that they love. Welcome to the show, Kristen, and thanks so much for taking the time to share your story. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored. So let's dive in. Tell me your story. How did you get to where you are right now? Yeah, so I think like many entrepreneurs I got here through my own life experience and specific to my time in corporate, uh, before I launched my business, I had, depending on what I count, 15 to 18 years in traditional corporate roles. And I was the good girl. I got good grades in. School. I went to college. I got a good job out of school, you know, really, you know, a good title. Lot of earning potential. You know, I played the game, I climbed the corporate ladder and, you know, I found myself by all outside measures. Um, I was successful and I should have been happy, and this is what I wanted. And I was living in New York City. I was making really good money for a 20 something year old. And yet, I found that I was the most unhappy I ever was. And so I had, I had my own little spiral , which I think a lot of us are having, you know, post pandemic, Who am I? What am I doing? Is this how I wanna live my life? And I didn't know it at the time, but that was really when, um, It was really the start of finding myself, figuring out why I was truly unhappy at work. Um, I changed careers and that was really the beginning of my career coaching business because people looked at what I did and they're like, Wait, how'd you completely change careers and how'd you get a promotion out of it at the same time? Can you show me? And so I was doing that on the side of my new corporate job for fun. And, um, you know, before I knew it, I, I had to take my own advice, , and I wrote Job Joy and I had some, um, I had some stickiness around the idea of being a coach. Um, you know, and this was many years ago, and I think, you know, some of that is, you know, as more and more people get coaches, it's, it's not that way anymore. But, you know, I wasn't sure I wanted to be a coach and, and what would that mean? And yet, you know, through the process of writing Job Joy about how to really define success on your own terms, how to build not just a job, but a life you love. I had to really look at myself and say, Hey, this is what I really wanna do and there's all these other reasons I'm not doing it. And so I needed to walk the talk. And so I, so I launched my business post writing Job Joy. I couldn't go back to Cubicle Life. . What were you doing in Like were you actually in HR or helping people with their careers, or was it something totally different? Yeah, so I had a lot of different careers. Um, I started, when I was in college, I was teaching my post MBA job. I was in investment banking. Then I was in financial consulting for, uh, restructuring companies, going through chapter 11 for about 10 years. Then I changed careers to do marketing and strategy for Fortune 500 companies. And through all of this, of course, I had my personal experience of changing jobs and changing careers. But I was doing a lot of mentoring and I was writing for, this was when blogs were kind of a new thing. , I was writing for career blogs about the process. And of course, at the time I didn't know I would become a coach, but all, you know, looking backwards, all the seeds were there. So, Of course, I've got a lot of contacts and a lot of people that I worked with who were recruiters and hr. Um, but what really differ differentiates my work is that I'm not just looking at it from the point of view of a recruiter or an hr, but actually from the point of view of a hiring manager, from the point of the view of the people who are actually making the decisions and actually needing to add these people to their teams. So who are you working? Who are your clients? Yeah, so I have a couple different types of clients. Um, number one is the corporate job seeker. Someone who's stepping into leadership. Someone who either wants a new job or they wanna change careers but they wanna make sure they're doing it the right way, landing the right job, cuz everyone I work with, they could get a job, but it's not about just. Getting a job at the right job. So that would be number one. Number two, I work with people who have corporate backgrounds, but that are looking to either launch a side hustle or maybe even launch a full-time business. And then of course I have my corporate clients, which is more focused on, you know, employee retention, employee happiness cetera. So I have a philosophy that, um, Work is changing very dramatically since the pandemic. So do you have any sort of insight into that? Is that true? Are we looking at work differently than we did before? Absolutely. It would be crazy if an event like this did not change who we are, what our priorities are, um, and how we view work. So absolutely, and I'm seeing that on both sides. From the side of the employee or the candidate. Um, you know, the past couple years have, they've changed up our schedules. They've made us see perhaps something we weren't open to before. Cause we were just so blindly following this idea. We get up, we get dressed, we get in our, our put on our corporate face, at our corporate hair, at our corporate outfit, and we commute an hour to work where. Spend the day, Right. Trying to get something done that we commute back with where we can actually do our work, right? And all of that has been challenged because it's been forced to be. Um, in addition to that, we've had more time to really think about, you know, is this what I want? And not just at work, but what do I want in my life? What are my priorities in life? And, you know, the pandemic caused us all to kind of halt and have this time to reflect. And really pause and say, Is this what I want? Is this the way that I wanna spend my days? Right? Because how we spend our days, 8, 9, 10 hours a day, sometimes more for my clients, right? It's how we spend our lives. And so, you know, employees are demanding more and they want more balance. And I'm talking to really high achieving, really high paid people who are even telling me if I have to sacrifice some income. I'm fine with that, but I'm, I'm no longer available for the hustle. I'm no longer available to be burnt out. I just talked to a man yesterday who, um, is in the finance sector, and I said to him, How is the burnout affecting you? And I was expecting him to say, Oh, you know, uh, I'm tired, my health, my relationships. And he told me a month ago, he had a heart attack. Stress induced. And so he's taking a leave of absence to really reflect and, and say, you know, do I even wanna do this? So we have that from the employee side, which, you know, as a holistic career coach, I love this. This is why I love what I do, not because I'm obsessed with LinkedIn or resumes, but because I'm obsessed with people coming back home to themselves and building a life on their own terms. And so we have that and then we have how employers are reacting, right? And it's on both sides of the spectrum, right? We see the, the news reports of, you know, companies saying, No, everyone has to come in. FaceTime is so important, right? And then, and then the fight with the Gen Z and millennials, right? And then we have the other side where they're seeing how much more value they're able to get. They're saving money on offices. Um, they're able to have a wider talent pool because they're not stuck, Right. Having to employ people in one city. Um, so it's, it's really great to see that, you know, the market is changing on both sides. And at the same time, there's a lot of resistance to change. Right. So it's Well, of course. Yeah. Yeah. All of a sudden you have a whole bunch of managers who are sitting there going, Okay, I, I coasted by for a long time because I could see people sitting in their desks and that was good enough for me. And now I'm gonna start to be accountable for being managed by objective. Right. And by outcomes. And I think that's scary for a lot of people because they don't know how to manage in that way. Right. They don't know if that feels very fearful. It's so fearful. And you know, another big change in the workplace is, is just people taking, you know, being their own self advocate. And that's part of the rise I'm seeing in the entrepreneurs where they're like, Hey, wait, I ams slaving away. I am working so hard and yet they would let me go in a second. Right? What if I took half of that energy? Cuz everyone I work. They're hard workers, they're high achievers. They care about their work, they care about their impact. What if they took even half of that time and energy and put it into their own thing? And so, you know, that's how I'm seeing the rise of, of entrepreneurs, even if it's on the side to start. So it's. From my point of view, it's a lot of exciting things. It's a lot of alignment. Um, you know, and, and not to say that it's not, like I said, that it's not without the resistance and the hard conversations, but I think this is the direction we need to go. And also seeing, I could go on and on forever about this Stephanie . That's okay. Good, Good, good, good. Um, I think companies are being forced to see their employees as whole humans now. It's, it's not okay to compartmentalize anymore. It's, it's not gonna work. Right. And those companies are, who aren't following that, they're, they're going to suffer greatly. They're gonna lose top talent. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about the process you go through with your clients when they come to you. Yeah. So, uh, first off, we really wanna start with looking at where they're at and many times unwinding the trauma, the survi being in survival mode. Um, I used to always start with clarity, which is so important, and that's the next step. But after the past couple years, we have to start with. Calming down the system, and not just mentally in our minds, but literally calming down our bodies. Because if we are in that survival mode, it doesn't matter if you have the perfect script, if you have the best clarity, right, you're going to self sabotage And it's just, it's very natural. So we start with, you know, unwinding, um, really recovering from the burnout, really looking at how we got where we are. And then once we can calm down the system, once we can create a little bit of space, mentally emotion. Physically. Then we go into the clarity work, and so the clarity work is not just what do I want this next job to be, but to be really honest with yourself. Who am I now? Right? The job you chose or the major you chose is in college, or the job you chose when you graduated college. It's probably not a fit for who you are now, right? What we want at 22 is different than 32, 42, 52, and really looking at what is the season of my life. How have the past couple years changed me and what is the life I wanna create? And based on that, what career or job will support that life? We're taught to do the opposite. Right. You go to school, you get a good job, then you move there, then you build your life around that. And you know, in a lot of the work that I do with clients, it's actually doing the opposite. What do I want my life to be and what is the career that will support that? So when we find that clarity and we go a lot deeper, a lot more reflection, a lot more questions, uh, but once we know where they wanna go, then we use that as kind of our North Star, and that is how we. If we're talking about a job seeker, that is how we position them as a candidate. If we're talking about an entrepreneur, that's how we position them as the best fit for whatever service they're offering. So in both cases, we really look at creating your story, which really connects you with where you are now, plus your past, plus your experience, plus your passions and skills to where you wanna. And that positioning, right? Whether you're an entrepreneur or whether you're a job seeker, we really look at it as a marketing campaign and we're marketing you. Um, and that is the basis for all your assets. That is the basis, um, for who you talk to, how you talk about them, how you talk about yourself. Um, and then from there, um, you know, it's a, we get more clarity and we're working the process when we're having conversations. And, and so it's very similar path. For job seekers and, um, entrepreneurs. Uh, but so important because clarity doesn't just happen in our heads, right? Clarity happens through action and through conversation. Um, and then, you know, whether it's a job seeker landing the job that we negotiate, how do you get off on the right foot with entrepreneurs, right? That's a, that process continues to evolve, right? That never stops. Yeah, no, I'm aware. , yes, very much what I, I spend a lot of time with my clients doing and that even, even when they've started their, their business, you know, two, three years later, it's a very different business and it'll continue to evolve and as long as we can be comfortable, and that I think is what previous generations. We're not comfortable with is, is the ongoing change that happens. In fact, it was viewed as, as very, like you're, there's something wrong with you if your career continues to change. And I know in my career, like, you know, I spent 25 years as a. Business consultant, but I was doing all sorts of things right. And yeah, I was in the technical space and I was a project manager, and I was a business analyst and I was a, you know, I was a solution architect and I would do some design and like tried all the different things and, and that's fine like that, that's, and I think it's really healthy at this, in this day and age, but, Are you finding there's still a lot of holdovers where we're, you know, we've got, I'm 47 and I, I grew up in the, the world where you find a steady job and you stick with it. I never did that, but , you know, that's, that was our, you know, what we were taught. And I think it's interesting, my dad asked me this the other day. He said, If someone just gave you all the money that would sustain you for the rest of your life, what would you do? And I said, I do what I'm doing. And like that's, that's the key. Like that's when you know that you, you've kind of gotten there, but you've built a life where, you know, you, you're kind of rooted in something, but you have the creativity to sort of move around that in a lot of different ways. And I think that that's what a lot of people are seeking is a little bit of an anchor, but the creativity to be an owner of their work. Yes, absolutely. Have accountability and ownership over what they're creating. Yeah, and you're the owner of your work, or the way I like to say it, you're the CEO of your career, whether you're an entrepreneur or whether you're an employee. And that mindset is, is so important. But yeah, I think there's still some, some residue of the old ways. Um, but I'm seeing, you know, more and more people are realizing that. You know, and it's my opinion, it, it's not just better, but it's actually strange if your career doesn't evolve with you. We are growing and our, you know, each generation right, is growing so much faster cuz we have access to so much more information. Information, so much more support. Um, our careers have to keep up with us. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think that, um, you know, . I remember working in a union environments for a very brief period of time and it, I mean, there couldn't be something more contrary to my value structure, but it was interesting being in there because you see this real tension that this, this organization, you know, they're sort of pseudo public sector, but not really, and. They wanted to attract really great young, new talent, except the infrastructure of the business was rooted in tenure and the people who they wanted to attract wanted to come in and have ownership and you know, the most responsibility you could throw at them. As soon as possible, and that didn't work with the culture of the organization and the structure that they had put in place. No matter how well you did in your first year, you still always got a mediocre review . And so they could never keep, they couldn't keep. That kind of talent that they really wanted. And so they would hang on to the people that were really like anchors that were just wanted to be there for the tenure, that just wanted the benefits and, and weren't interested in bettering themselves. So. So how much do you kind of run into that sort of, um, that tension with, you know, great employees who keep running into, um, workplace cultures that don't support their desires? Yeah, I mean, I, I remember experiencing this myself in banking and, you know, even having a conversation with my boss and I had started, I didn't start like, on the cycle with everyone else, so I was, I don't know, like four months off. And he was putting me as though I had started a year before and I'm like, Wait, you know, and we had this whole conversation of time spent versus performance, right? And, and in my mind, in my young, naive mind, right, who cares if I started four? You know, later I'm handling more accounts than everybody else Right. And I'm doing it well, and I've got more industries than other people. And yet it was this old school and of course, banking, right? This old school culture of, you know, when you've hit these time milestones and when that was the priority, as soon as I realized that I, I knew I wouldn't last. And so to your point, I'm, I'm part of that group and you know, of course I see that with my clients and I think, you know, really smart high achievers. Once they realize that it's. It's such a, um, it's such a depressing fact, right? When you realize, I took this job, they sold me on this, and, and, and I'm not willing to play the game, right? Cause they all say, Right, it's a meritocracy. No, it isn't . Right. Um, I think the thing that people have to watch about for, um, because a lot of high achievers, they do have that imposter syndrome. Ironically, they have the most issues with confidence, right? We see studies. The smartest people have the most questions about their abilities. It makes no sense, but. Now, the smarter you are, the more you know you don't know. And so we need to make sure that we don't take this misaligned culture that I would argue is focused on the wrong drivers, right, for promotions and um, and all of that, That we don't take that as meaning something about us or our value. And when we do internalize that, That's where it can become really toxic. So that's why it's important to be surrounded by other people like you, surrounded by people who can, you know, see what's really going on and get you in a better situation. So yes, it still happens all the time, but less and less. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think that the demand, I think that the people are speaking, so to speak, and, um, you know, those, I think it's like dating, actually dating is going through a very similar sort of, Uh, shift in in, oh, did you say that article about men? Not, not findings. Rabbit hole. I have lot to that particular subject. Women are waking up and realizing they don't need men, and so it's making a, it's, it's forcing. A big shift in, um, old traditional roles, and I'll leave it at that. But , I wanna, I wanna talk to you a little bit more about your business and what you're doing inside your business. So how are you finding clients? How are they, how are they kind of coming to you? Yeah, so referrals are a big piece of it. Um, a couple years ago, I, I did do, um, Facebook ads and that was a great way to bring in aligned clients, but obviously with everything going on there, um, I've taken a break from that. So definitely referrals, um, you know, content. I'm on social media, on LinkedIn. I'm also on TikTok, which by the way, The, uh, people around my age, the high achievers, they're making their way. I'm getting investment. They're smart, connecting with me there. Um, so that's a really fun place. Of course, I'm on Instagram and Facebook. Um, so a lot of organic now. Organic and referrals. Um, of course referrals from actual clients, uh, they're friends. Um, when it comes to corporate work. I'll have clients who then, you know, recommend me to come in and do a workshop for their company. So right now it's mostly organic. Yeah, I mean that's pretty normal, right? Like I think a lot of, a lot of us sort of higher end service providers, that's really our bread and butter, right? Yeah. And I'm take track and I'm playing around with it too. Oh, yay. We'll have to connect. Like I'm, I am completely addicted to it for the educational content, like it. I couldn't care less about it. And their algorithm is very, very good at serving me up the things I interested in seeing . But yeah, you know, it's, it's also a study itself in super interesting dynamics and how many smart and creative people out there are out there that now have a platform. Yes. Yeah. So I love it. Good. And there's being a mix of people who have like regular jobs and they also have this entrepreneurial piece so much better. Right. There's one woman I somehow stumbled across, and she's, um, she's a crisis communication expert, and she just, that's what she does for a living and she just does her job, but she creates all this amazing content and what, what a fantastic thing for building a personal brand. And I've always felt like even if you're an employee, you do yourself a great service by building a personal brand. And I wondered if you could comment on. Absolutely. So if we weren't talking about TikTok, I would say yes, Yes, yes to all of this. Personal branding is actually how I changed careers. It's part of how I teach when I talk about positioning for both job seekers and entrepreneurs. The big asterisk when it comes to TikTok is TikTok has a lot of humor. There's a lot of. Sarcasm. Um, and I'm seeing a lot of employees get in trouble, even get fired when they're, um, you know, showing anything that wouldn't make their company proud. So the, the big asterisk care, and this goes for all social media of course, but it seems to, TikTok seems to lend itself to getting people in trouble more than any other channel, right? Be sure that if your manager. Saw this post, if the CEO of your company saw it, um, that they would be okay and it actually might be worth having a conversation what is allowed and what isn't allowed. Right. Remember, we remember years ago when Twitter was big, it's probably still big. I'm not a big Twitter person, but we'd, everyone would have, you know, tweets are my own, you know, not endorsed by my company. Right. And really just being careful there. Right, Right. Because we'll see people. Making videos on the job and, you know, not putting their employer in the best light or even joke, things like, I have to say, you know, it was a big, a big joke where, um, and it's, we still see it where employees will show that they're, you know, they're working from home, but they're not really working. They get online and they go take a shower, and I'm like, Are you guys crazy? Like, even if it's a joke, even if it is a huge exaggeration, you want. To work remotely and yet you're putting out this content that yes, it's getting likes, it's viral, but it's, you know, it's validating the fears of management, which is that when you're at home, you're not doing anything. Right, Right. And so to answer your question, personal branding is so important, but we need to be really intentional, really strategic, really smart, um, about it, and also have a forward thinking perspective, right? Not just what am I doing now, but where do I wanna go? And then having that inform what we post about. So let me back up a sec. So you, you kind of stumbled into being an entrepreneur because you had. Been speaking and writing and talking about your own experiences, and at some point in time people started asking you for your help. Yep. And at what? How long did that go on before you were like, You know what, this is a business. Um, it, let's see. It started, started around 2013. Um, when I, when I was, I was writing and I started, I left my quit my consulting job without another job. Lined up . People thought I was crazy. , remember my mom telling me, We better not tell your dad he might have a heart attack, . Um, so it started around then and then, um, I ultimately made. In late 2017 and went full time. So I had been doing it, but it was, I was doing it in a safe way cuz I had, you know, my corporate job, I had my paycheck. Um, and at that point it was just fun. Yeah. And then, you know what, what, how did things change when you decided to go full time? Uh, in what way? They changed in all the ways, but , Well, you take that. You take that leap and even just like mentally and emotionally, even if nothing has changed from one day to the next, all of a sudden there's this burden of responsibility, right? Yeah. So did, what did you do? Did you get to work? Did you start, you know, thinking more about marketing? Like, what was that kind of transition like? Yeah, so, you know, I, I had the book, which was a great place to start marketing wise. I had a background in more corporate marketing. In my last role I had. I had had been doing marketing directly. I had also been doing more partnership, um, partnership, what we might call in the entrepreneurial world, like also affiliate type marketing. And so I had that corporate background. I also always had a personal passion for it. Um, before I got into finance and before I got my MBA in finance, I went to school for psychology and marketing and a lot of what I do in my current job. Is psychology and marketing. Even the way that I help people, land, jobs, or build their businesses, right? We need to understand and really meet people where they're at, right? And, and have that marketing be that story, that message, et cetera. So that was something that luckily I had a personal interest and a personal passion in. Um, the thing I needed to get good at was sales, because that was not something that felt fun to me. I had all these old ideas of what sales meant, and I didn't wanna be like the slimy, you know, used car salesman. Um, and so that was something that. Probably the first thing I really had to work on. Um, because if we can't talk about, if we can't be excited about what we have to offer, right? If we can't connect with people in that way, then we're never gonna get to help them. We're never gonna make, get, to make the impact. And if we don't get to do that, then we don't get to stay in business , Right? And then you're gonna go get another corporate job where, You know, you're, you're not making the impact, You're not making a difference, and your, your soul isn't full. So that would probably be the, the first thing I had to work on. Um, it was definitely scary to, you know, to invest in coaches. That was my, the first year of business. All my money was in coaches and programs and really making sure that I understood, you know, the entrepreneurial world. Um, and I bet on myself know all that, that money that I made in consulting. That retirement funds like that funded my business the first year. Absolutely. And that's scary too. But when I was looking at those big investments, you know, I wanted to know that whether or not this worked out, that I had given it my all. Yeah. And that's what allowed me to make the scary investments, to do the scary things to show up daily, even when I wasn't seeing the results yet. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And what do you know now that you wish you had known then? Hmm, such a good question. Probably so many things, . Um, I would say what I've learned along the way, and it's very hard. Like if I were to go back to my younger self, I'm not sure she would've truly grasped this. Um, but it's not just about the tactics and the strategies, the energy. Mm. So important. And if anyone's listening to this and they're still in their corporate role or, or they're, you know, like I was very, very strong in the masculine, the planning, the strategy they're doing. Um, I can feel them rolling their eyes, the energy, blah, blah, blah, , but finding, um, taking care of my energy, taking care of my wellbeing, the same task if I am in a different head space right. Can be so much harder and have, um, so much less results. Right? Versus if I am in the. Space. And so allowing for that flow, allowing, allowing for, you know, some feminine leadership in addition to, you know, the masculine pieces that we need. Um, and, and not rolling your eyes at that . Right. The, you know, it's, you know, I, I talk to my clients about this a lot is, you know, if the reason that we do business model alignment is, um, because if you don't have the energy. The right energy in your business. Think about what that's gonna mean for every day when you have to show up and you have to do the things. You're not doing them in the service of something that really lights you up or something that is fully aligned with who you are as an individual. And I don't mean passion, like, Oh yeah, I like photography. I mean like, There is a business passion that you have that you need to discover. And this is kind the, kind of the work that we do. And when that is evident, everything else falls into alignment. And so we need to protect that. And that energy is incredibly important. It's not something about, you know, woo woo spiritual anything. It's, it's like how we're showing up and how we are aligning the, the passions that we do have and the things that we wanna do. And that is like night and day in terms of people who have businesses. Yeah, it's huge. And you can feel it. You can feel the. When someone shows up and you know, another thing as as a former good girl, good student, I would say yes. Learn the rules. Learn the strategies. But don't forget that you get to make this your own right. Don't lose sight of yourself. Right. And the reason that you went into business, you know, in the first place, like we, we can connect with an entrepreneur and say, Oh, I want them to be my mentor. But you know, learn the strategy. Yes. Right? But learn it so that you can make it your own. Right. Cause if, if you end up. Leaving your corporate job, launching a business, and then basically following someone else's rules, you might as well have stated a corporate job, right? You're, you're recreating in the same, you know, prison that you know you might have felt in corporate. Yeah, a hundred percent agree. So what's next for you? Yeah. Um, well, I'm gonna continue . The, you know, a lot of the work that I'm doing now, it continues to evolve. I'm adding a lot more, um, somatic work I've been doing that, you know, personally, and now it's now as I'm embodying that, that is, is creeping into, into my work, which is really fun. Um, so many of my clients, they're really good. They're really strong in their heads, but we need to get into our. Absolutely. Yeah. I remember therapist telling me once, she's like, You can't think your way out of this. I'm like, But I wanna, thinking is what got you in this mess? . So some, some more Anything else? Yeah, I'm, um, I'm growing my corporate practice. I'm realizing as, um, companies are, you know, stepping up and evolving to employee demands, right? That there's more of a need for that. Um, so that's been really fun. Um, and also, you know, I have my programs for, um, both people and corporate as well as entrepreneurs. Um, but I'm also looking at, you know, growing the one on one, you know, executive mentorship, which is really fun. We get to go really deep. No, no clients, You know, journey is the same, which is, you know, keeps it fun for both of us. So, so yeah. Lot, lots of fun things. Yeah, I love that. I love that move into corporate work. It sounds like that's an audience that could really definitely benefit from your services. And finding that sort of bridge in that match between, you know, both of those, those clients I think would be a really interesting, um, challenge for. Yeah, absolutely. And it, it's so needed and I think what I'm noticing already, even, even just adding, for example, some breathwork to a corporate workshop, I'm able to do it because I'm not coming in as this super woo woo spiritual, you know, kind of on the fringes person. I've been there. I've had the investment banking job, I've had the consulting job, so it's grounded in that energy that is recognizable, which makes it a little bit easier or a little more palatable to people. For, you know, who this might be a, a brand new way to look at things. Yeah, I love hearing that and I think that one of the places that I've become becoming much more interested in is this marriage of entrepreneurship and corporate and how those two are starting to sort of fit together in people who are building businesses that, that do find that sort of bridge between entrepreneurship and the corporate world and how do we can inject a little bit of that into, into both. So I love that. So I have a question that I ask everyone. Um, What's the difference between what we hear out there in kind of the business world, the online business world, and what's real? This could be a whole episode. I know . I know. Um, and you know, you, and even in your intro right, you kind of hit on this. Um, but it, no one has an instant overnight success when we see that, when it looks like that. Right? That was years and years, likely decades in the making. Right. So really watching when you're comparing. Um, that would be one thing. Um, also, I hate when people say they're self made. No one is self made. We all need others. We all need community. We need our friends. Um, no one is doing this alone. That is, that is a lie. It's an absolute, and it doesn't matter again, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're in corporate. No one is doing this alone. So that's something that makes my eyes roll . And it's not giving credit right. To the mentors and your colleagues who have been, you know, on the journey with you. Um, you know, and I think. You know, something else, which we touched on before, but really, you know, we see all this outer work and just follow my five step process, right? Or, or you said six figures in six weeks. And that is very much on the external, on the outside, on the, you know, X step formula. Um, but what we're not seeing, again, the kind of real versus. What we see is all the inner work that's involved, so you can have the best strategies ever, right? But if deep down you don't think you're worthy of financial success, right then it's not, it's not gonna matter. You're only gonna get so far in the, the success you have, which you will, you will have success up to a certain point, but it's gonna come through hustle and pushing and at the expense of your wellbeing. And so that can be a hard pill to swallow for some people, for sure. When, believe me, I've, I've been in the case where I just, just tell me the formula. Just tell me what to do, right? We've all been there and yet, um, unfortunately, it's not just a formula, right? So it, it takes time, it takes community, um, and it takes a lot of inner work. Yeah, I wish more people would understand that. I, I'm a big proponent of what I call slow business, and it's like that sort of slow food movement, right? It, the, the nurturing and the nourishment really only comes from setting the expectation that things take time. They just do. And there is no magic pill. There is no, like, three months is, goes by like this. And, and it takes a long time. A lot of people beat themselves up because it took them a long time, but that's just normal, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm glad you're normalizing that too, . I'm trying. I'm trying. Okay. We're coming up on time. I wanna thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. I love your business. I love your journey. Can you tell the listeners how they can find. Yes, absolutely. So my website is Find Your Job joy.com. If you go to the courses section, you'll see the corporate track, you'll see the Entrepreneur Track. You can find me on LinkedIn, Kristen svo if you, if you're AAC person, my handle is Find Your Job Joy. Um, and everywhere else is just my name. . Awesome. We'll put all the links in the show notes so you can find them. Or if you're just listening, uh, go search up Kristen and we'll, we're gonna wrap up this episode. I am so happy that we had the opportunity to chat with Kristen today to hear more about how her business came to be, her experiences along the way, and what the future of her business entails. I'm so excited for you and thanks for tuning into this episode of The Real People, Real Business Show, where we get the real entrepreneurial stories and journeys that you can relate to. The show notes, resources, and links from this episode are available on my website and social media platforms. And thank you so much for joining us today. If you have enjoyed today's content, I would love for you to give us a review on whatever platform you're on to help us share these genuine stories with an even bigger audience. Until next time, keep building. Keep dreaming and keep being real.