October 26, 2022
Candice Elliott - Sustainability in Human Resources

After working as a Human Resources (HR) manager with one company, Human Resources Strategist, Candice Elliot branched out and began working with a variety of organizations bringing to bear all the expertise she had developed ...


After working as a Human Resources (HR) manager with one company, Human Resources Strategist, Candice Elliot branched out and began working with a variety of organizations bringing to bear all the expertise she had developed around HR best practices.  

In this episode, you’ll hear how Candice started her own business, Fortress and Flourish, offering her own brand of HR helping impact-driven leaders develop workplaces that provide a sense of community, safety, and meaningful work for their employees.

Candice discusses her mission to help growing companies create HR sustainability, how she defines sustainability in human resources, her Do HR Differently  methodology she uses to guide her clients towards an HR sustainable approach, and the different ways clients can work with her. 

Candice shares her early business journey, how she evolved her offerings as she aligned her skills with what she wanted to bring to the world, and how she positions herself to attract clients who are the best fit for what she offers.

Finally, Candice shares the transformation she brings her clients, the “horrible gift” the pandemic has been to the work world, and the direction she would like to take her business in next. 

Find Candice  at:

Website: https://www.fortressandflourish.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fortressandflourish/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/candiceelliott/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIH8KTvtAnh58vdlQbQXvlA

Visit Stephanie at: https://stephaniehayes.biz/

Follow me on Instagram | Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter

 

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Transcript

Welcome to the Real People Real Business Show. My name is Stephanie Hayes and I'm a business strategist and coach who loves to speak with like-minded entrepreneurs to share their real stories and the gritty details on building their businesses. On this show, you won't hear about glamorized entrepreneurship journeys that you see online. You won't be told how to make six figures in six weeks. Instead, you can expect to hear real, vulnerable and inspiring stories you can relate to that have helped create the foundation for each of our guests businesses. Goodbye, boss Babes. Hello, real life entrepreneurs today. I'm so excited to welcome Candice Elliott. Candice is on a mission to flip the script on HR as a four letter word to helping impact driven leaders thrive with their teams through HR best practices. She focuses on creating a sense of safety, belonging in community, in the workplace that makes more, more meaningful increases of employee retention, and of course saves money. Welcome to the show, Candice, and thanks so much for taking the time to share your story. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to the conversation. Me too. Okay, so give me the goods. How did you end up where you are? A winding circuitous, strange path, . Um, so I started my company for Fortress and Flourish four years ago. Um, I had been working as a human resources manager for a farm to table restaurant group, um, here in Santa Cruz where I live. Um, and they have the penny ice creamery and the picnic basket, and. The owners of, uh, the Glass Jar Restaurant Group is the name of the restaurant group and they're amazing people. Um, and at that time, four years ago, I just had kind of decided that I didn't want to be, um, just working with one company anymore. I really wanted. To work with other organizations in my community and nonprofit organizations, um, in this realm of human resources so that I could take all of these best practices that I had learned in my master's degree, and then through working at the Glass Jar and help. So I, since that time, um, have. Grown into working with small business owners and nonprofit leaders and, you know, kind of expanded into working in the tech space and with conservation organizations and with, um, creative agencies helping to lay their. Foundational HR practices and then also to help develop transparent systems of pay. Um, and so the, the sort of lens through which I work in HR is in, um, creating sustainability. So sustainability for the business owner in running their business and working with their team. Um, and sustainability for the people who are working in the team, especially related to like stress and clear communication and. Also in equality. So helping to bring fairness and, um, equal opportunity to the workplace and building community. Um, so that's where, where I've landed now. Uh, so I wanna ask you about this cuz I really, I find it really fascinating. Um, tell me what sustainability means to you in the HR perspective. Yeah, Yeah. Um, so the way that I think about. Sustainable systems in the world of work. is that, um, start kind of starting with. The way that we are earning money, how we are bringing resources into our company or our agency. Um, so we have maybe offers or we sell products and so we price these in a certain way and we advertise them in a certain way. And so we channel this, these resources into the company. And then we wanna find the ways that are most meaningful for channeling that money then back out into the community. And so that can happen in a variety of different ways with the way that we are paying our staff with the way that we are. Subscribing to different kinds of products that are helping us run our business. Um, and then in with ourselves as well, in the way that we as business owners are supporting our lives and our families and the things that we want. Um, and so that has to be sustainable, right? There has to be a good. Um, stable or at least maybe predictable in some way. Channel of resources that's coming in and flowing out of the organization. So that's kind of the basis of, uh, the financial piece of sustainability. And then with people, um, There is looking at the, the work that the person is doing and whether the work that they are doing is truly aligned with what they want to do, Um, so you can, there it is really unsustainable if you have a person in a job where they're doing something that they hate or that they don't wanna do or something that really is against their values and, and so really aligning. The, the people that are working with you, with the jobs that you have that are most aligned with their talents and skills is another aspect of sustainability. Um, and, and then looking at the workload is another piece. Um, so I, um, , I kind of think about the workload through the lens of seasons of service. And so as we look at the calendar of the year, we go through seasons of spring and planting the summer where things are growing, the fall where we're harvesting, and the winter where we're resting. And so building into, um, the flow of the work for your people all. Different seasons is important because I think in our culture, we tend to spend a lot of time in spring and in summer. So we're planting and we're like harvesting and planting and harvesting, and it's like go, go, go all the time. But. Building in these rest periods and the pauses and the reflect periods make it more sustainable and make it so that people can stick with you long term and so people don't get burnt out. And um, I can also go into like stress and how stress manifests in the body. Um, One of the things that happens when a person is under stress is that the blood that's normally in their organs and nourishing their body and helping you digest goes out into your hands and your legs and your, you know, your limbs so that you can respond to this. Threat. Um, and so when people are under stress for an extended period of time, even if it's just little bits of stress day in and day out for, you know, years, then it starts to manifest as different kinds of illnesses. So like insomnia or fatigue or, um, you know, autoimmune disorders and difficulty with digestion and all of these pieces. So, um, it's unsustainable for a person's body to be under stress all the time. Um, and so building. Times of rest, uh, is an important piece of sustainability. Okay. There's like 85 things I wanna talk about from everything you've just said. I love it so much and it's, it's so, um, This more holistic approach and and view of like human, human resources is desperately needed in the corporate world and in small businesses as well. Arguably, though, I think we do a little bit better there because we're a little bit more connected, but let's talk first about this alignment of work to the human, and this is something. Traditionally, the corporate world has gotten so wrong and they build, um, they, they, and you could tell me if you agree with this or not, but they tend to build jobs, job descriptions, aligned with what the business needs, which makes sense, right? Yeah. But why not build jobs around the people that you have? Yeah. And, and when I work with my clients, Who own larger companies, like maybe 30 people, right? There are responsibilities that in the organization that you wanna make sure gets done by someone in the organization, right? So you have these job responsibilities and so when, so you create a job description that's around what your business needs, and then you go out and you advertise this job. In all the different ways, uh, to try to bring your ideal person into the organization. And so you're looking for that person who is really aligned with the job, you know, like someone who really wants to be doing whatever it is. So, for example, I am an awful technical writer. Like I and I write policy and handbooks and like all these things for companies, right? It's, it's. It takes me a long time to do it and I hate it. That's what I mean by I'm awful at it, . Um, so instead of me doing that job, I decided to hire someone to do that job because it's not in my highest and best to be doing the technical writing. and I found someone who loves it. Like she loves the detail of it. She loves making everything perfect. It's just like her thing, you know? And so you wanna find the people who are really aligned with the work that you have, because there is someone out there whose gifts are, are aligned with it. and then, you know, once you hire someone into the organization and as you learn about them and as you come to understand what they truly care about, then you can sort of tweak what their responsibilities are so that they really are reflective of those things and you can change the job as you get to know them more. Yeah. And I think we forget the human side of, of the job description. Right. And I think the worst example would be like working in, in a unionized environment where. You completely dehumanize the work entirely and all the value is placed on how aligned it is with, you know, a collective agreement, or I'm sure you have lots of experience here and so I, I love that you're like, you know, you're sort of charging forward with creating an example of how we can build more aligned work within the work. Yeah, I think in bringing up unions, we have a, a restaurant that is unionized here and, uh, it's I think the only unionized restaurant in our county. Um, and it's very clear like who is supposed to clear dishes from a table and who is supposed to be greeting people and who's supposed to be doing all these things. And, um, coming from a restaurant where everyone did everything, uh, it, it just, it creates a lot of. It can create a lot of discord, um, to have such clearly defined roles. But that said, I do think that unions are an essential component of the protection of workers' rights and that there are benefits that people have when they're a part of a union that people just aren't able to. Organized to get on their own outside of union environment. Um, and that really a lot of the growth in the field of HR towards more equality and diversity and, and justice, um, is bored out of those unions and the industrialization of work. Um, and then, you know, through the civil rights, Yeah, and I, I have a lot of opinions on this, but we would, we don't have to get into them, but I, I do think that there are, there is an, you know, an appropriate, um, venue for, or an appropriate industry where we still benefit from unionization. But I think, you know, I've, I've seen it applied in, in professional environments where it was absolutely unnecessary and we're, we're well protected from a, you know, our legislation and not. Thing in, in terms of these professions. So it became almost like the antithesis of human inside the human. And so, you know, it's a case by case basis and certainly there was a role to play and it's really influenced the way that we have created protection at the legal level or at the provincial or federal level, um, at the state level I guess for you guys. But it's, um, yeah, it's an interesting conversation for sure. I wanna like switch over now to another question that I have for you. So in terms of like, you're, you're talking about the, the employee as a whole, right? Yeah. And how do we start making the changes? How do we, how do you influence your customers to recognize that? Being aware of and conscious of your employees health and wellbeing, and I mean that mentally, physically, emotionally. It, I think, my opinion is that it, it no longer, there is no longer a separation between, you know, you keep that at home. Mm-hmm. . Um, I used, one of the startups that I worked on many, many years ago was, um, Community site for unpaid, unprofessional caregivers. So full-time caregivers or part-time caregivers who were caring for a loved one or a, you know, a family member or a friend or what have you. Um, and the like, just the integration it had with their work lives and how difficult it was for them to maintain a work life. And these are like, if you saw the numbers and how many people are trying to juggle and take care. Their loved ones at the same time as being a productive employee. These things are at loggerheads, and I'm curious how you've been able to work with businesses to shift that perspective and to build more integration and more awareness of health and wellbeing into the workplace and how much that can impact the business. Yeah, so. One of the things, one of the resources that I have available on my website is, um, it's called DO HR Differently, and it is a series of inquiries that you can make into different parts of your business so that you can more align it to this sustainable equality, community based, um, place. And so, One of those is, um, a segment that is on, um, having a trauma informed approach to work. And so that touches on what we were just talking about, about making space for all these different seasons that people go through in their lives. Um, And being able to recognize trauma responses when they're happening in people who are working for you. So those responses are fighting. So when arguments are happening or like physical fighting, um, that's one response. Fleeing is another response. This is one that I do. I'll like go into the bathroom and close the door and just be by myself, , um, or freezing, which is when someone says something to you and you just like, don't even have a response. Like your body just stays. Yeah. Um, and then the other one is freezing, is. Is fawning. Um, and so fawning is when you agree with a person who is, um, creating the stress or creating the trauma for you so that you don't have to actually talk about what's really going on for you because that is more of a threat. You perceive that as more of a threat. And fawning is something that happens in the workplace. It's like expected that you're supposed to agree. Whatever is happening at work so that you can keep your job, so that you can get your promotion, so that you can get your raise or whatever it is. Um, and so one way to, to enter this is to just be able to notice those things when they're happening and recognizing. There's a breakdown that's happening in the communication and a breakdown that's happening in the workplace, and when there are breakdowns, it's an opportunity to break through into something new. It's like everything that you have learned and done up to this point has created the problem that you have. And so when you're unable to, See a new path or a new way forward, you look for what's missing. So what is the thing that's missing that you add to the equation that brings you into this new, new way? Um, and it can look different depending on what the breakdown is, . Um, but that's sort of the methodology that I, uh, guide people through when we're trying to figure this out. So how are you working with your clients? So I'm obviously with like a 30 person business, they're probably unlikely to have a dedicated HR person. And this also sounds like training that basically anyone who's within the organization needs to have and be aware of so that they are able to. identify and work through the, what they're seeing happen in their workplace? Yeah, so I work with my clients in a few different ways. So, um, one way is doing like the whole suite of everything with them. So , we write all of their HR processes and procedures from this like trauma informed and community building perspective. And we create a transparent and fair system of pay. And like that is, it's a, a project that usually takes about six months from beginning to end. Um, but not everybody's ready for all that at once, . Um, so I also do just strategy sessions. Um, so there's one strategy session where. It's like you bring me your question and we talk about it, and we come to come up with a solution for you together. There's another strategy session where we're working on building a policy for you, a policy around maybe a particular issue that you're having. Um, and then I have training days, so I'll do trainings for, um, like managers or for supervisors, um, around these different issues, um, as they relate to your workplace. So let's talk a little bit about, um, your, your business and building your business. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about how you're finding clients, um, who they are and who's kind of ideal for you, and where are you locating them? Yeah, so my ideal clients. They are impact driven leaders. So they are people who are bringing already a values-based approach to their work. Um, so you find this a lot in the non-profit world, and so I have a lot of non-profit organizations that I work with, but you're also finding it a lot in the smaller for-profit business as well. And so those are also a lot of my clients. Um, I, the way that I find my clients is through building relationships. Um, so I belong to a number of different business organizations locally, um, and provide resources to the people who are in those organizations so that they know. Like who I am and what I do and um, what I'm good at. And so that when they have a problem, then they know to come to me so that I can help them. Um, and then more recently I've started doing more interviews, so podcast interviews and speaking at summits. Um, just to kind of get the word out more about this. Sort of methodology in hr. Um, for me, I, so when I first started my business, I like, I would do like all of your HR processes and procedures and everything, and I would just charge $30 an hour for it. And it was like, now when I look back, it's just so wild how things have changed over these years, but, As I worked in my business in the earlier years, I just said yes to everything. Hr. I was like, You need HR help. I will do it. Like whatever you need, I'm there for you. And so I learned through that process really what people needed. And then I learned more about what was like truly aligned in what I wanted to bring to the world of hr. Um, and really where my expertise fit. You know, like I'm not an employment. There are employment law attorneys who are wonderful at answering all of the legal questions, and I know enough about that to be able to share best practices in hr. But you know, legal help is a different thing. And then, for example, like accounting, right? Like I know enough to be able to tell you when you should talk to a bookkeeper, CPA, or you know, the different kinds of accounting softwares that are available to you. But that's not like my jam and running payroll is not my. Either. So I found this sort of space, um, over time and just like continued to refine the offers that I was bringing forward and like flesh them out more and more. Um, so that they be, they have now become sort of like a, a learning journey and a, and a, a journey where we're building, building things together that are a resource and a foundation for the organization for years. Yeah, I love that. And I, I love that you've created sort of your own brand of HR and, uh, how, And so this is what happens when I talk to innovators, which I would consider you to be, Um, you get to a huge value of mine too, um, and disruption. And so you get to the point where you know what is good for your clients. And they're over here still looking for something very kind of standard. So how are you bridging the gap between what they think they need in which, you know, that they need, but they may not necessarily be looking for? Yeah. Um, we, That's a good question. So, I think that at, at this point, it's sort of gotten to the point where I attract a particular type of client, who's looking for the kinds of things that I, um, that I talk about and that I share and the resources that I'm bringing forward because those are really reflective of, of the type of work that I do and that I wanna do and the types of, um, clients that I wanna work. That said, when I have people who come to me who want something that is totally different, um, then I will usually try to find someone that I know in my network who is a better match for them. Like, I don't try to fit myself into a relationship with a client that is not where it's not the right thing. Like, I would rather have them go do work with someone else, um, and then, you know, bring themselves along to a certain point and then maybe at a later time as they've learned more or learned from me or learned through their life experience than they come back. Um, so I, I don't try to sort of convince anyone that this is the way to go. Um, I share information and if it resonates and if, if it's a path that someone wants to go down and it's a. Journey for both of us together, then we move forward. Um, I have had experiences in the past where I have done the opposite of that, where if, where it's not really the right fit for us and it, um, it just doesn't work out well. It's not an enjoyable experience for either party. So what's your greatest hope for your clients? Like, what do you hope that they grow? My greatest hope for my clients is that they feel hold themselves as the leader of their business, that they feel well resourced to be able to address the ever-changing environment of running a business and reacting to the external pressures that come, you know, to them and the internal pressures that they be able to, um, To. Have time for the things that are outside of their work that they love to do and that, um, you know, bring them fulfillment. Um, you know, for myself, I'm a mom and I'm a ceramic artist and I am a business owner and I am multi passionate. And so, um, I. I want for my clients to be able to, uh, pursue all of their different passions and not have their life drained by their company, which, um, sometimes is where we start, you know, it's where, it's where we stay in a very long time too. I'll tell you that much. Yeah. And I think, yeah, or when I start working with someone that. Can be where they're at. You know, like I just, one of my recent clients, um, has been on the front lines of covid, um, vaccination and testing, um, and runs a small medical team. Um, and we, we are almost done with a project together. And it just, it's like the transformation from when we started to now it's like, He is able, he's able now to respond and to plan and to do like all of these different, like mental like activities that just were, it was, he was too drained and, and stuck and unable to do at the beginning. So, um, yeah, it's been great to see that transition. Is there a particular. Um, place that a, a business needs to be at to really get the benefit of working with you. Or, you know, some of my clients, I know they're, they often only have, you know, 2, 3, 4 people working for them and they still wanna do right by the people and they still recognize how, um, important having. A good solid team that is, you know, really committed to working with you is, And so is there a way to serve them? Is there a way for them to also get benefits from the work that you're doing? Yeah, yeah. When I work with people that have a smaller team, um, what we usually start with is like a, it's kind of the same thing that I would do for a larger organization. Smaller. Um, so we look at, you know, what are the HR. Practices or the pieces that happen with every person who works for you. You know, when you find employees or you find contractors, because if you're a smaller team, maybe you have a mixture of employees or contractors, or you only have contractors. So we look at the ways that you're finding those people and the ways that you're bringing them into your organization. Um, we look at, you know, What the jobs are, what are people doing? What makes the most sense, um, for you in the, um, work that you're bringing to the world, the service that you're bringing forward. How are people going to support you the most? Um, because sometimes, You can have people doing different jobs, but that's not actually gonna move the needle forward for your business. So, um, being really clear about where you're channeling those resources in support of your growth and your stability is really important. Um, And then we look at, you know, like we said, compensation and how everyone's paid. And, um, if there's a hierarchy in those positions, like maybe there's someone who's managing people or maybe that's not happening and you just have everyone who's all on the same level. Um, one of the things that we look at is, Doesn't make sense to just pay everyone all the same amount. Um, that's a, it's a collectivist approach to compensation and it creates a more like egalitarian, um, uh, team. And that can work really well in, in teams that are smaller. Um, and even to teams that are larger, it just requires different. Sort of structure, um, and a different lens through which to look at how you're building your company if you do that. Um, And we, and we look at how you are giving people feedback, um, how you check in with people through the training process, um, how, when there is a disagreement or if someone's not quite like, Getting to the place that you want them to, how you can have conversations to bring them there. Um, and what is like helpful in those conversations and what is actually unhelpful and will make things worse. Um, and then we talk about transitioning people out of your organization. And so when it's time for people to move on, the different ways to go about. Yeah, I, You must have been asked this before, but we are seeing the world of work change post pandemic. Yes. Which in my opinion is actually a really, really good thing, and obviously also comes with its challenges. But what are you, like, how are you seeing your work change or is it changing or has this created new opportunities for you? Because I think one of the, the. Epidemics within the corporate world, um, before Covid was, um, a lack of ownership that a lot of employees have. And a lot of times, like I would see inside this kind of union environment that I worked in many, many years ago that they couldn't retain. New innovative young people because the reward system and the compensation system was structured so that it was very like rigid. And so what, what a lot of these people wanted wasn't the additional benefits and the nice office and the the higher pay. What they wanted was the ability to have ownership over their work and to be given responsibility and to be trusted, and they never got that in that environment. As we move into this sort of post pandemic world, as businesses are starting to recognize that they can have a remote workforce and, and like trust their employees to do great work, even if they're not being micromanaged or managed in place, how has that started to shift thinking and the work that you're doing with, you know, maybe bigger organizations? Yeah. I, uh, I think of the pandemic as a crucible and in leadership theory, the Crucible is this, uh, transformative experience. It's a very difficult experience and you are not the same person on the other side of it as you were when it started. Um, and I think of it as a, a horrible gift. terrible because, It, there's been so much death and sadness and, and all of those things associated, um, with this, this pandemic. However, it has shown a light on what isn't working in the world of work, and it gives us an opportunity to make a choice. And so we can have, we can choose to continue to do things the way we have, which. A legacy of industrialization and, you know, hierarchical business structure and these like systems of oppression that really, um, sort of like sweep issues under the rug and don't deal with them. Or we can move forward in a different way, um, and we can move forward in a way that is really supportive of ourselves as business owners, as CEOs, as CFOs, controllers, executive directors, um, and all of the people that work with. And every work team is a little bit different, um, with what they need and the tools that they need in order to, you know, if you're, if you're moving into a remote workforce, there are tools that can help with that. Um, but, um, you know, I, I think when. When we're trying to sort of move forward in a different way, um, from this breakdown that has happened. I mean, people are, people have left their jobs in record numbers. Pew Research came out with a study earlier this year. and it's, it said something like, I think 63% of people left because they weren't making enough money or for better work opportunities, which I think are kind of connected to each other and connected to inflation. And then better work opportunities is also the ability to grow and to be self actualized. And then the other highest, you know, reason was because people were disrespected at work. So it's none of those. Because of Covid, it's because people are not making enough money because there aren't opportunities for growth and because people are not being treated like humans. at work and treated well at work. And so I. as people have left the workforce, even just left the workforce, changed jobs, done all these things. Record numbers of people are starting businesses. And so I see this as a wonderful opportunity for all of these small businesses to be able to do what they want. They can bring into the world what they want to see, and so they can choose to move forward in this new way and. in large corporations, there is this opportunity as well. It is more difficult to affect change in a larger corporation because, um, the, the systems and the culture becomes so ingrained, um, with, there are so many people that said it is possible. It usually takes getting together with the, the whole group of the c. Suite of the organization and really getting everyone on board and having buy-in and going through a transformational process. , uh, in order to affect change in a big corporation, another way to do it is with a single department. And so you have a department and you work with the department head and all of their team in order to kind of affect this kind of a change. And in order to do that, the department has to have the support, um, of the, the different administrative pieces of the organization. Yeah, in my experience there's a, also like a catalyst, right? There always needs to be some type of catalyst, which we arguably had a very big one. Um, yeah. To, you know, incent that change. And it's been really interesting to, to watch and I think, you know, as much as. It was very heartbreaking to see us the world go through what we've gone through. I think it's gonna be, you know, 10 years from now it's gonna be really interesting to look back and see the longer term effects and from like an anthropological perspective and from a social perspective and from an economic perspective and, and really understand how the changes have, have affected our US in the long term too. And really like created this new world of. Yeah. Um, clearly you have given a lot of thought and a lot of experience into your business and kind of developed to where you are right now. What's next for you? What's in the future? Um, that's a good question. Um, at the point that I've gotten my business to right now, um, what I have. Where I've gotten to this year is that I have set up the systems that I need to have in place so that I can scale the business and bring in more clients. Um, so I, I have the sort of standard I. Uh, processes that, that I work with my clients through. Um, I have contractors who work with me, um, to support those clients through those processes so that I can be at the points that are. The most meaningful to me and to my clients. Like I get to do all of the client facing work and then I can have other people helping me with the work that happens on the background, like data analysis. And we already talked about technical writing, . Um, and then there's someone who helps me with marketing as well. And then, um, there is of course our nanny who watches my son Eleron, um, who is a big part of the team here at Fortress and Flourish. could not do this without her. So the next step is to be more visible, um, and to bring this message out into the world, um, and to, uh, really start to engage with people beyond my immediate community. Um, most of my clients up to this point have been located inside of my county or the neighboring county. Um, and so now we're, I'm looking at expanding to be a serving. You know, a wider range of folks all over the world, hopefully . And I think that's entirely possible for these viewpoints that you have, and, and I think you're right on the cusp of. Of like great timing to be focused on what you're focused on and to be, you know, heading in the direction that you're heading in. And I'm really excited to watch you grow and see where you take your next steps. Um, thank you. We're coming up on time. Can you let our listeners know how they can find. Yeah, definitely. Um, so I spend quite a bit of time on Instagram . Um, I have just gotten into filming reels, uh, which I find really fun, so that can be kind of entertaining. Um, and my website is a wonderful resource. Um, there is that guide doing HR differently, which is available there. Um, I also have a bookshop that is linked and, um, just a whole bunch of like a small business resource tab and a blog and, um, so I invite you to look there and to, to learn more about this approach. That's awesome. Now I'm gonna go and, and look at all of the things and do all the reading as well. . Yay, . Awesome. Okay. We'll put all the links in the show notes and make sure that everybody is able to go and find those resources. And I thank you so much for sharing all of this with us. I think we're right on the cusp of a new world of work, and you're very well positioned to be part of that. I'm so happy that we had the opportunity to chat with Candice today to hear more about how her business came to be, her experiences along the way, and what the future of her business entails. And thank you for tuning into this episode of The Real People Real Business Show, where we get the real entrepreneurial. Stories and journeys that you can relate to the show notes, resources, and special offers from this episode are available on my website and social media platforms. And thank you again for joining us today. If you've enjoyed today's content, I would love for you to give us a review on whatever platform you're on to help us share these genuine stories with an even bigger audience. Until next time, keep building, Keep dreaming and keep being real.