Nicole Liloia - Forging a New Path in Client Support

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Welcome to the Real People Real Business Show. My name is Stephanie Hayes, and I'm a business strategist who helps experienced entrepreneurs design asset-based business models that set them up for growth and exit. I love to speak with like-minded entrepreneurs to share their real stories and the gritty details on how they've navigated their own way through. On this show, you won't hear about the glamorized entrepreneurship journey as you can see online, and you won't be told how to make six figures in six weeks. Instead, you can expect to hear real vulnerable and inspiring stories that you can relate to that have helped create the foundation of each of our guests businesses today. I'm so excited to welcome Nicole Liloia. New Jersey based. Nicole is a small business coach and strategist. Over the course of her nine years in this business, she's helped over 500 service providers build their business and diversify their income streams through her signature Bigger Business Bootcamp and Grow Your Income Mastermind. In 2013, Nicole worked as a freelancer counselor with multiple nonprofits. From there, she launched her. Counseling, private practice, working one-on-one with stressed out and anxious women. And not long after that, she started her business coaching services. Her business bloomed out of her need to work smarter and not harder, and overcome her own money blocks while running a business. She understands the challenges of being an entrepreneur and teaches others how to enhance processes and systems, create a bigger business, and bring in more income without the overwhelm and burnout. Welcome to the show, Nicole, and thanks so much for taking the time to share's story today. Thanks for having me, Stephanie. I'm happy to be. So let's hear the whole story. How did you get from being a counselor into business strategy and coaching? Yeah, well, I got my master's, uh, in social work at Columbia University and it was, um, basically my desire to go out and work with people and counsel people, um, and help them. You know, just kind of deal with mental health struggles like depression and anxiety. And ironically, I started out with kids. I thought it'd be easier, didn't realize I had to work with the parents, um, and had my first job doing nonprofit social work. And truthfully, it just got very burnt out. I needed three years to get my next license so I could have a private practice someday. Didn't know if that's what I wanted, but at least wanted that option. And at this time I was living in New York City, had five roommates. Because social work does not pay well. Had lots and lots of grad school loans and just really was like, what am I gonna do? Um, and I just knew I needed something different. So I actually took time off to travel and volunteer after I hit my three years. And when I got back I was just like, oh my God, what? I do not want a job. Like the thought of finding another nine to five just seemed horrible to me. Like I dreaded it and I think it was. Continued burnout from the job, from the structure, from the unrealistic expectations and bureaucracy. And I ended up, um, doing basically a lot of contracting work and things like that. So it's very rare to be like a freelancer as a therapist, but I managed to do that somehow with different positions at a nonprofit and counseling and doing things like that. So, Freelancing really is starting, is what started to get me closer to being a business donor. And so you were freelancing and your, you know, your kind of foot in the door to the entrepreneurial space was that you were coaching and you were helping and working with women who were burned out, who were business owners and were burned. Well, when I was freelancing, I was still kind of working with kids. I was doing some nonprofit work and you know, I finally just was like, let me try a private practice. So I actually shifted into the private practice model first and had. An in-person counseling practice. Mm-hmm. Which this is like 10 years ago, so online counseling wasn't really a thing yet, and when I started my practice, I was like, oh my God. I just recreated the nine to five for myself. Like I have to be in person, I have to have this office. You see the same clients every time, every week. And truthfully, I am an introvert and I just get very drained. So I was like, I don't want to see 25 clients or 30 clients, you know, to make money. And then I was like, oh my God. Also like if I don't raise my rates or you know, I will never make more money. The only way to make more money is to see more clients. And I had kind of discovered coaching at the same time I was launching my practice and was really intrigued by it. And honestly a little jealous cuz I was like, wow, people can work online. Like they could have these, like different containers that are creative for working with people that are not like weekly sessions in person, in an office for 45 minutes and that's it, you know? Um, so I did start to add in some coaching. Women with burnout, um, and I experimented with some online stuff and it was not fast, and eventually things started to pick up on the coaching side and I gradually just let my therapy practice in person die out over time. What I can say from working as a business coach for many years is that there's probably a lot of similarities to therapy work and the work that you do. Mm-hmm. When you're coaching individuals who are business owners, right? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think it's just the support that you're giving them. And, you know, the space that you're holding for them, if, if it is all one to one clients. But truthfully, I don't, majority of my work is masterminds and group programs right now. Um, because I still find, I think just the way, and I wanna say as an introvert, because I feel like, you know, We talk, lots of people talk about being introverts and I hear it like, I can't do this because I'm an introvert, or I can't network in person because I'm an introvert. I can't go on social media because I'm an introvert. I can't see video cuz I'm an introvert. So I think a lot of it is not. You know, for me it's interesting, a lot of introverts, um, and maybe it's not being an, maybe it's not exactly an introvert thing, but it's how I identify it. But a lot of introverts are really good with one-to-one work and individual work and not groups. And um, for me, one-to-one work is really draining in the way that I hold space for people and maintain that. Um, and just kind of talking to one-to-one people, like one having one-to-one sessions all day every day. So for me, group work's actually better for some reason. But, um, yeah, I think that there is a lot of similarities for coaching. I think there can be a little bit more flexibility than with therapy, especially in the states when you're often reliant on insurances and stuff like that. And, You're working with people in a structured way and there's more boundaries around email and things like that, but I think it's easy to kind of fall into the same pattern with coaching where maybe you're overgiving, you have not great boundaries, they're just showing it shows up differently. Yeah, and I think that, you know, even if it's not the same, you know, kind of topic area mm-hmm. I think that the, you know, the skills that you have around sort of directing and pulling people in a certain direction to help them discover their own kind of perspectives and their own thoughts, I think is incredibly valuable and incredibly important. I know that there have been times where I'm like, wow, this, this work is all business therapy, isn't it? Yeah, definitely. Um, yeah, I think supporting people and just being able to get them to make progress or change things in their lives or their businesses, there's definitely that similarity. And there's also that risk for burnout too. Yeah. And I know that I've worked with a number of, um, Of people who were sort of healthcare providers. Mm-hmm. Or who were psychologists, or who were therapists or who were counselors, and they kind of were running up against the same thing that you were running up against where there was a cap on. You know what? They were sort of allowed to charge and their only way through was to either get more patience or find another business model entirely. Do you think that that's a fairly. Common root for a lot of people who kind of came through this profession. Cause I know a lot of them would turn themselves into sort of life coaches or mm-hmm. Whatever they could call it. And they were still kind of doing the same work, but because they were calling themselves something different, then they were able to be more creative in the way that they delivered their services and what they could charge. Yeah, I think for sure, um, that is absolutely true and I think people have gotten frustrated with bureaucracy. I think that, you know, post pandemic, there's a lot of trauma like Vic Vicarious traumatization from working with people in the health, you know, and if you're working in the healthcare world, whether it's a nurse or um, a therapist or another, another profession. So I definitely do think there is, you know, a desire where people are like, okay, I've seen things could be done differently. I see things could be done online. You know, um, you know, how can I, how can I keep building that's differently? What are my other options? And a desire to learn more about that. I would say I'm an online dinosaur because that wasn't really being done 10 years ago. Um, but it's definitely much more common. Yeah. And I think that a lot of, you know, there are, there are now a lot more options for, um, for people who are coming out of sort of those, those professions and those expert professions that, you know, they could find that relief or they could find that creativity. In another way without being sort of ti tied to the, you know, the state regulations or whatever it might be. Yeah, definitely. Um, and I think there's just also more openness from people to working with people online, both as you know, a client. And as a professional too, you know, just even a few years ago still wasn't super common for therapy or healthcare or things like that. So in one way it's definitely familiarized ours. It's familiarized us in a different way with online and for people who weren't yet doing that we're, they were kind of thrown into it. So it's opened up new doors for them. Yeah. What was the turning point for you where you, you kind of said, you know what, this is, this is what I'm doing, this is the, this is the practice that I am starting, I'm gonna be coaching and now I'm focusing on business owners. Yeah. I mean, it honestly wasn't, um, that long after I started my. My private practice, I was still kind of first working a job so I could have access to health insurance. Um, I was working part-time and I had been doing kind of the freelancing stuff and I redirected that energy towards. Towards having a private practice. And then I really, again, like discovered the online world in coaching and business coaching early, and I was just super intrigued by it. And because I had already taken time off to travel and volunteer when I had gotten barat, it kind of seen a different way of life of, of being able to explore the world, not just taking a vacation, a one week vacation, but being able to spend time in different countries and learn about the culture and connect with others. Um, So it really did sort of, I think, motivate me in a different way before others because I knew it would allow me to travel and do those things, and I wanted more of that experience. And so you, you made a decision and you, you started moving into, you know, the coaching space and tell me about, you know, growing that mm-hmm. Part of the business. Mm-hmm. I mean, that was a new skillset that was so sort of a new audience that you had to start attracting, right. Yeah, I mean it was a big transition truthfully, because, um, getting clients online at that time seemed a lot easier than like finding people in person and having to network in person. And I just had this like unrealistic, uh, belief that all they needed was like a pretty website and some strong copy and like people would start, I mean, it helps, but yeah, it definitely helps, but it's not enough on its own. It's not enough on its own to. Get you booked out overnight. Like you need to get people to the website to see that copy. And I think another thing is I've really had a trouble, a trouble niching. Um, it's not like a thing that you're taught when you're going through grad school to be a therapist. Like maybe it's like thinking about specializations and stuff like that, but it's thinking about it more from. The mental health side and the sort of clinical side of symptoms and removing personality from things cuz you're trying to protect people's privacy into your notes or you're writing research papers. So truthfully, it was just even just like learning, not just like the online moral language, but learning a different language in terms of trying to connect with. Clients. Um, yeah, and really being able to express like how I could support them and, and um, really making it clearer and not focusing like on the process of what I do, but really getting clear on what they were struggling with and, you know, what my work would, where it would help them get. Do you think having the background in sort of therapy and counseling gave you like a leg app in terms of No, I think it's that coaching causes you a little bit interesting. You're really, again taught like you're not taught like coaching for people, for coaching. Like, you know, you're trying to sell a bigger package and it's very attractive to service providers who are used to like a session, right? Like a one-off session. Yeah, whether it's a chiropractor, whether it's, you know, I've worked with baby sleep consultants, I've worked with lactation consultants. It really is like a one by one session bottle and like there's no real commitment, right? Like clients can come in and they could try you out for a session if you get them to that session, like to a first session, and then they might leave, right? And there's no like, Guaranteed income, there's no, um, guarantee that a client's gonna stay with you. Whereas with coaching, you're really selling like a package. It's very rarely one-off sessions. So it goes from selling something that's like one 50 to 3000 potentially, right? And like maybe you get 3000 per month therapy client, but you know, you don't need to make that a promise. You do need to hopefully for a therapy client, like be clear that you can support them, but you're not looking like that far. You're not, people are not like, I'm really putting in a big amount of money. Like people struggle to pay one 50 for a session. So then when you're trying to switch to coaching and you really have to kind of look at services different and look from a more, you know, solution oriented way and also really learn how to package and market, um, you know, Their therapists are great at that work, but if they can't let people get clients, it doesn't really matter, unfortunately, or any, you know, again, hourly service provider who's really trained in what they do, they're really skilled. They're very good at wanting to take new certifications, but in terms of that, helping them actually reach the people they need to and make money doesn't really help. Well, it's an interesting. Question. Right. Because I think that, you know, I, I come from a technology world. Mm-hmm. And so there are people who will just pile up the certifications and pile up the certifications, hoping that that's what would make them attractive to clients. But at the end of the day, the clients are always hiring the people who, um, Who have the personality to navigate their workplace or who, you know, they're hiring the consultants who, um, have people skills as well as their certifications or mm-hmm. Who have experience with something or another. So I think that these, you know, these, these sort of expert professions, I think that. Piling up. Your certifications are only gonna get you so far, but you still need to know how to navigate the landscape, how to be a freelancer, how to add value to your clients. And I, I'm expecting that when you went out to become a coach, I don't know how you differentiate yourself when you're a therapist, when there's, you know, one down the street and another one down the street. How does a client choose you versus the other? If. You know, certifications or your experiences similar. There's a little bit of branding that has to happen there too, isn't there? And then, yeah. And that's the like language that therapists are missing. Yeah. Cuz they're thinking certifications, right? They're thinking licenses, they're thinking trainings. And the truth is that clients never even ask about that. Like 98% of the time. Like I never had a therapy client. Be like, oh, where'd you go to school? Or like, what, what is your license? Like, they don't really even know the differences No. Between them most of the times. But that's what we're so busy being trained in and focused in. And our energy's going to that when we do leave jobs, um, and try to go out on our own. It really is, um, Like a shock. Like it's a shock that, you know, we don't know how to market ourselves. It's a shock that we don't know how to run businesses. Like just from organizational ways. Again, like people are great at seeing clients and juggling sessions, but it's like all the other stuff, which there's a lot of the stuff to get to the point where you have clients that the stuff that's needed where things sort of fall apart. But the funny thing is, is like I think of myself as somebody who would hire a therapist, and I would hire a therapist because of who they are and how comfortable I feel with them as an individual. It's no different for coaching or for freelancers. People are hiring you for who you are, for you, you as an individual and how, how well they connect with you. So you may not have all the certifications or. Or whatever, but you're going to appeal to a certain demographic. You better know who that is. Right, right. And that's, you know, the piece is, it's like they may know who their de demographic is, but they're thinking about it in clinical therapist terms. You know what I mean? Like. Couples recovering from infidelity who need to communicate more, like no is going to couple service. Like, yes, they wanna communicate more, but they're saying it differently. They're like, he doesn't listen to me. You know, like, so they're not using those words though. They're using like professional like language words. Like, Hey, you need coping skills, right? Like, that's great lesson right there, right? Get your partner to pick up the slack around the house. So it's sort of like they don't know how. Express what they could help people with. So it's hard for them to connect with clients at times, um, because the clients don't know they can help them really. They're not thinking like it's two different languages. A hundred percent. And that's such a, that's such a, like a basic business lesson. And it's interesting that, you know, you can see it coming in, in that, from that perspective as well. So who are you working with? I work with service providers who want to scale into multiple income streams. Mm-hmm. Um, so it tends to be people like therapists, um, lots of people in healthcare or um, health and wellness. Um, sometimes freelancers, uh, coaches who really are wanting to reach more people who are burnt out by the one-to-one work, just like I was, who want more flexible, um, lifestyles who don't wanna be, you know, in their office all day or now on the computer all day. It used to be in person, now it's on the computer all day. Um, and just feel driven by their work and also have recognized like their income is capped.. Yeah, and I think, do you think, do you think that these folks saw your journey and that really, you know, inspired and resonated with them? Yeah, definitely. Um, and obviously because like I do know how to speak to that now, you know, so it's, it's, it definitely helps. But I hadn't, that was a huge, huge stumbling block for me. Like, I felt like I was clear, like all my coaches were like, you're not clear. And I was like, yeah, I am clear. It's a stressed out woman like, Every woman in the world, you know what I mean? I was gonna say like, but you know, it felt really clear to me. Um, so, but it doesn't do you any good if you're the only one who knows who your client is and people can't send you people. Um, the thing is though, you know, particularly as a therapist, and I didn't take insurance, but there's a lot of people who get clients because you're just on their insurance panel. That doesn't mean they're the best fit or the best person to help you. Right. Right. So again, a lot of times too, like we're also just used to, and this can be in any any like job, right? You get a job and you're just kind of throwing work and it's not even always stuff you're good at or enjoy, but you know, you're just given tons of clients in all different ranges and areas. Like I said, I specialize in children and I did not. Then I realize I did not want to, so I had to really change that on my own. And it's not like I got another certification, but it was just learning how to like, Skills and knowledge a different, a different way. Um, so yeah, it is really just, it was really hard for me. I still feel vague at times. I could still speak in vague generalism things like more money, right? Like, what does that really look like? You know? So I think that is the area that a lot of my clients struggle in. Ironically. You know, you always help. People with what you do help with? Um, I just had my first, uh, my first call with my mastermind members for my current round. And, you know, it was a lot of, uh, people who are seeing one-to-one clients, so they've gotten that clarity, but they want different projects. They're distracted, they get stuck in, in seeing clients and not working on the other stuff. Um, they don't have good systems or foundations so, They're just constantly burning out. They're constantly staying at the same space and stuck at a plateau. Yeah. And I think that, you know, on your, on your business building journey, you go through this, you know, at first you're like, well, I should just, you know, serve everybody because I, I don't wanna miss anybody. Mm-hmm. But you really just kind of, you don't own yourself, right. As a, yeah. As a business owner. And then you get to this point where you're like, oh. There's a need. Mm-hmm. I saw a need. I found a need, and so, oh, of course this is gonna be successful because I am talking about the need while so are 500 other people, right? Mm-hmm. And then they start to get into this like, well, this need for. This specific type of person or this angle on this need, or I've got a solution to this need and we start to go, but that's natural evolution for mm-hmm. You know, our, or it should be anyway for our businesses. And so we, you know, the, the further we can peel back those layers, where are your clients at? Yeah, I think that my clients are at the place where, again, they do a lot of times have money already. They have some secure income and they want different income streams. And it's hard because I think a lot of times there's people who want that, but still don't have that first secure income stream. So they're trying to go in too many directions or like you're saying, they see a. But it's like completely different from their current audience. Mm-hmm. So that's a problem too, because it seems easier, like, oh, this is a really good product or this is a really good program or service for this, for this audience. Right. Um, and it's not great because it's not great because if you don't know how to deliver to. It's not gonna work well. Or if you don't have that audience at all and you already have, you know, a different kind of audience. Like if your audience is new moms and then you're like, always teen girls are really struggling with X, Y, Z, and like I could create that for them. You know, you have to build a totally separate audience. So I think that's the other thing. It's very easy for my clients to try to give 10% to 10 different things. Yeah. And it really is. Creating a strategy and intention, getting clear on your goals and like what are the actions that you're taking that are gonna lead to this goal? Um, and not just general business admin tasks or upkeep or client work, you know, and really starting to carve out time for that. Yeah, I've known a lot of business owners who will fall back to the things they're really comfortable doing when they get stressed out. Mm-hmm. And even if it's not moving their business head, as long as I'll go really hard into like redesigning my program or my operational backend, even though it's fine. Mm-hmm. You know, that they'll fall into that trap of, you know, doing whatever feels like, you know, cuz honestly, selling and building a business is hard. Right. Yeah. Being visible is hard. And again, you know, yeah, we're used to kind of being behind the scenes just doing the work with our clients, supporting them, but we really do need to balance the visibility piece, and it's hard to do when you're not getting paid for it. Hmm. Yeah, I can see that too. The motivation is, you know, there's not a direct line of sight to how this, you know, particular activity, which, oh by the way, feels really uncomfortable for most people. Mm-hmm. So I'm uncomfortable and I'm spending a lot of time doing this stuff and I don't see the direct result. And so I can see how a lot of people kind of fall off the wagon. Yeah, definitely. One of the, in the, uh, um, guests I was interviewing earlier today, um, you know, his sort of closing re remark was like, one of the things that I struggle so much with as an entrepreneur is, is feeling so isolated. And you run masterminds, you run group programs. Tell me about your experience, seeing how much of a difference it makes for these folks to be connecting with each. I mean, I think like today's first call was such a great example where there was just such like size of relief for people where um, you know, it was so reassuring for them to see that there are other people with the same struggles as them who get distracted, who like learning a lot and try to get too many certifications. You know, just knowing that other people have the same story as for you, I think it's really the same story as you. I think it is really comforting and there's something about, you know, encouraging other people to do it, um, to do things and to get out of their comfort zone and to become more visible, where then you have to start to do it yourself or you see that it works. So it's reinforcing when you try to do it your. Yeah, and I, I think also just being in the presence of other people who are, you know, who have the same struggles mm-hmm. Or who are normalizing the questions you have and the doubts that you have and the perspectives you're developing, I think that's incredibly important. And I think mm-hmm. Offering that ability for connection is, you know, really drives people forward when they may have got stalled. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So what's working for you in terms of growth? How are you finding your clients? I mean, one thing that I do is that I really, uh, I have a Facebook group for, you know, Entrepreneurs, you know, just kind of describing who I worked with, like service providers, people who, you know, provide services in the health and wellness industries. And that's gotten really helpful for me because it continues to grow. There's not a lot of. Engage Facebook groups anymore. Mm-hmm. Um, it sort of died out. It used to be a big thing. I think a lot of people then jump to the next thing, whereas for me, like reels and stuff are never gonna be my thing. TikTok is not gonna be my thing. So I think it's, you know, just. Staying with, with what you know and like and really being consistent with it and strategic with it. Like I've had Facebook groups in the past, but they didn't, they weren't what it is, what this one is for me and for my business. Yeah. So I do think it's been me sticking with it, me being more specific, even though I didn't wanna be right. I just wanted to be like, Hey, any woman entrepreneur or se, you know what I mean? Like service bride or freelancers, everyone. Right. But then they're not getting targeted info. See that I can help them because when I might be talking about a lot of things that don't apply to them or can't give examples of how they could use it in their specific situations. Um, So that's one that's really worked for me. Always having an email list has, has been good. So definitely making sure that, you know, I am feeding people from my, uh, from the Facebook group to my email list, because I don't think you can rely on social media. You know, things can happen at any time. Stuff could get shut down. Algorithms changed. I've had periods this past year. My Facebook group has just like gone silent and stopped swearing and nothing I'm doing differently, and then it's like starting up again. But I had to be consistent with it during that time or else it wouldn't have got going again. So like I do free trainings there pretty much every week. I direct people to free resources. I don't really sell a ton there unless I'm in a launch. So it's not like people ask questions and I'm like, Hey. Program is good for you or book a sales call, you know, it really is just me providing helpful feedback for free. Yeah. And so how long, how long did you work on building that audience before you kind of, before it really started to take off where you had that critical mass? Um, I mean, truthfully I've had really good. From the early stages, but I think it is that, um, uh, you know, kind of keep nicheing down, right? Like you said, like kind of getting more specific, so getting more specific to people who service providers who wanna move away from one-to-one. And get multiple on stream. So it's not like I'm like, Hey, I'm gonna help you start the business, right? And I'm gonna help you do this. Um, you know, I don't speak to people, all business owners, even my specific service provider, one at any stage, they really should have a business set up already. Doesn't have to be like super. Like financially, you know, thriving. But they do need the logistical pieces set up of a business. They need to have a business. Um, and usually even some clients, um, before they're going into the next stage. So I think being very clear about the stages where my clients are at, really, you know, noticing that multiple income streams, like that wording is very attractive to my audience. Um, And I think also just being honest, like I don't push passive income. That's not really a real thing, you know? Like if people are coming to me and they're like, I wanna create a course so I can have money coming in while I sleep, I'm not the right person for them cause that's not real and I'm not gonna take someone's money over something false. You know what I mean? So I think the other thing is that as much as it's. I will turn away the people who want that because they don't wanna hear reality. And I bring in my ideal clients who are okay hearing that because yeah, they like the honesty and appreciate it. Don't get me on my soapbox about passive income. There's nothing passive about passive income. It just means you get to work at a different time of the day on different things. I might the audiences for even that type of income to be consistent. Yes, yes. That's one of the big mis numbers. Mm-hmm. Is like, why would you create a course when you have, you know, 50 people on your mailing list or that takes a lot. It takes a long, yes. It takes a lot. Takes a lot of, um, audience building to mm-hmm. Generate the income. Like if you just look at the numbers to generate that income from a, you know, from a quote unquote passive income product. Mm-hmm. Um, so what's, what's, what's looking into the future looking like for you? I think right now for me it's just like, you know, I've had very, I've, I've been lucky to have a business that grows every year, you know, sometimes more than others. The past two years, it's grown a lot. So for me it's allowing myself to be supported more so. So continuing to refine like the admin help that I have. I am a group project manager, but making sure that I'm getting help in other areas with little things and not doing too much and you know, making sure that, you know, I am open, I'm a caretaker type so I know that in order to grow I have to change that because I can't take care of everybody. Um, and I need kind of people to take care of me too, cuz I'm tired after 10 years and. And pushing. So I think for me it is, you know, my motto this year is sort of like slowed down. What I'm really seeing is like you can't be in growth mode all the time. I have been lucky to be in a lot of growth mode, but I know to get to the next level I need to slow things down and pause things and clean things up and, and you know, get back on track where I've gotten off track cuz that happens and just really pause. Yeah, that's a really astute thing to recognize that we can't, we can't, and we shouldn't always be in growth mode. We can't and we shouldn't, you know, always be raging forward to the next, you know, big launch cuz A, you don't give yourself the chance to. Um, learn and to reflect and to, you know, have some, you know, time under your belt mm-hmm. To be able to see the results of what you've been creating. But the other, the other interesting thing that you said was that you're a caretaker. Mm-hmm. And I think a lot of the people that I've worked with too, sort of would identify that way as well. So what are some of the things that you do or that you recognize you need to do differently in order to be a leader as a care? Well, for me, some of the things that I do but need to kind of do more of is just kind of outsource more like in my personal life too, because I do, uh, have ADHD so it's very easy for me to get overwhelmed or not fall, follow through on things that I don't enjoy. So, um, you know, I ha and I also can keep up systems, but I'm not good at starting systems for scratch. So, I think for me it definitely is like allowing myself to invest in that kind of support when that's not like a normal thing that I grew up with. And it's sort of like, do it yourself, right? Uh, you know, so just allowing myself to take breaks. Um, I just was. Thick. I got a virus, which I knew kind of was like blurting cuz I was on go for a very long time. And then I took a long time to recover from it because it actually turned out that I had insomnia, but I didn't notice because it was so sick. So just stuff like that, like I really couldn't function and I actually just. Slept every day for a few hours. I saw my clients, but I had to kind of put the other stuff on hold. So, you know, just getting better with doing nothing, which is hard. Well, great. We can work together because I like starting things, but I don't like maintaining them. And I also have a D H D. Awesome. So there's one question I ask all my guests and I'd love to hear your perspective on it. Um, what's the difference between what's, you know, what we hear out there in the business world and the online business world and what's real about being a business owner? Yeah. Well I think that's kind of what we were talking about is like the passive income. Like there's a lot of stories of like, you need multiple income streams. You know, I do think multiple income streams are good, but like, You have to have a first income stream in place, and people don't wanna hear that. They think it's like better to start introducing lower cost stuff, and it must be easier to sell if it's cheaper, but you don't have the audience. So I think it really is like that kind of stuff, like passive income. I think it's also that people present that they're doing it all and they're really not, they have like multiple people working for them behind the scenes, you know what I mean? They're, they're not doing every piece of it, so, I think that's also very misleading for people. Hmm. Yeah, I totally agree. And I'll go on that soapbox any day. Awesome. Well, we're coming up on time. Can you tell our le our listeners how they can find you? Yeah, they can find me. , you all can find me on. , Instagram at Nicole Liloia or, , you know, obviously my website is nicole liloia, but I do recommend that you go to nicole laia.com/ci and download my consistent income generator because that really helps you if you're a service provider. You know, really get clear on like, what are your income goals like, Is this feasible with the amount of time you have? Um, what do you need to be charging? You know, do you have what you need for multiple income streams? And really assessing that and creating a plan for that. Amazing. Well, we'll put those links in the show notes so everyone can find that, and I'm sure you'll have a lot of people rushing over to download the, download that as a free resource. Thank you so much. Thank you, and we're gonna wrap it up. I'm so happy that we had the opportunity to chat with Nicole today to hear more about how her business came to be, her experiences along the way, and what the future of her business entails. And thank you for tuning into this episode of The Real People Real Business Show, where we get the real entrepreneurial stories and journeys that you can relate to. The show notes, resources, and links from this episode are available on my website and social media platforms. And if you've enjoyed today's content, I would love for you to give us a review on whatever platform you're on to help us share these genuine stories with an even bigger audience. Till next time, keep dreaming, keep building and keep being real.