Nicole Nett - Nothing Is For Everyone

Welcome to the real people real business show where we're talking with business owners who are in the trenches everyday, people who are working hard and have relevant and inspiring stories that you can relate to. Everyone we speak to is actively building and growing their business and is here to share their experiences, lessons, wisdom, and guidance so you can be inspired to take action towards your own goals today. I am so excited to welcome Nicole. Nat Nicola has a marketing agency that works with unconventional businesses and she's unconventional herself and I know she's got a really unique approach to the work that she does and I can't wait to hear more about it. So welcome to the show, Nicole. And thanks so much for taking the time to share your story today. Well, thanks for having me. Yeah, it's going to be fun. All right , so let's dive into it. Give me the whole lowdown on how you got to where you are today, how your business evolved, all of the cool things that happened to get you in this really interesting brand. So , um , you know, I like to joke that it was a whole lot of tripping and falling forward , um, because if you were to just look at my resume just in chronological order , um, the average person would be like, Whoa, crazy person. This doesn't make any sense at all. Um , however, what it's done is created this really amazing set of circumstances , um , that I'm able to draw on two , push the boundaries of what we can do with our clients. And so it's really exciting. It makes things , um, unique and less we have to create content because that's what we're supposed to do. So you'd have fun. So give me some of the background, like what, what are those stops on your resume? Well, I , um , was actually, I started off way back a hundred years ago. Um, I was in the Navy, the us Navy and I was stationed on a care at aircraft carrier. And so I was the first female in the air department on that ship ever in life. Mmm . As you can imagine, that was a , a huge wake up call. It, you know, 18, 19 years old. Um, so had some interesting experiences. I had. Um , you know, I like to think career-wise maybe I peeked to then because I worked up in a tower. Um , it was my, my life was like top gun every day . A little less sexy, but still cool. Um, and then I spent a, an ordinary amount of time in the entertainment industry, specifically music and comedy. So wait, how do you get from the Navy to entertainment? This is , well, like I know your background. That's actually, that's probably the key piece of this whole story that would make it all make sense to the people that are listening. So because I was the first a lot of things, the first female, an air department, the first female tower supervisor in the space in the Pacific fleet and I had a kind of a high profile job. I learned PR real early, real quickly and real accidentally . Um, I had a different understanding of media at a younger age and a lot of people do. And so that's really what opened the door. Mmm , no it did. It kicked the door down and then created a hole in the wall next to it. Um, that's what kind of launched me into PR, marketing, advertising, that whole role because I found out that the words that you use and what things look like create the reality for whoever you want it to for whoever you'd need that reality to be created for, if that makes sense. For sure. It does. Okay. So keep going. Um, okay. So , uh, got out of the military, then I was married to the military and that's when I was like, I'm going to be a strong independent woman. Um, and , uh, got into promotions, which led to advertising, which led to , uh , I'll never forget this day I was working for at the time, clear channel. It's now iHeart media , the, the evil empire recent joke . Uh, but they own like half the radio stations in the country. And I was selling radio advertising and I had a lot of the bars and concert venues and things like that. And so, well one day I went into my sales manager's office and I'm like, so rather than redoing all of these commercials every week for all of these bar plants , we're going to send everybody to their MySpace page. And they're like, what's loss based? Do we have a space? It was a archaic conversation. So what I started doing was creating MySpace pages, dating myself for all of these bars and clubs and concert venues so that they were able to keep up with their events. And I w I will never forget , I will never forget this day. I manage at the time said, you should stop wasting your time on social media. It's just a fad. I have my own company and he was unemployed now, so whatever . I think I brought that for them . That's awesome. So you're, you're selling advertising. Here's promotions for these bars and these nightclubs and doing these events. I was an event coordinator for a funnybone comedy club. Um, and so I was working with all of these, these comedians, like big names I've worked with just about everybody. And so many of them didn't have their social on point. And I'm like, if you just post this on Monday, then people come see you on a Friday. And then just, it has just naturally evolved. Um, that was kind of parallel with a lot of the concert promoting and I had an artist that I managed and um, so my, my very suburban life was wrapped up in hip hop and comedy. Lot of F words, lot of F words every day . So now you're in this place where you are, you are working in a marketing capacity as an agency and , and for whom like you have, you , you serve unconventional businesses. So who, so we do still work with, you know, music artists , uh, as well as comedians. And then additionally, what I have found, and this whole year has been a year of transformation within my business and we can get into that in a little bit. Um , but what I've found is the things that, you know, that that star factor that people are chasing when you're in the entertainment industry, it's the same star factor that people are chasing if they're just a small business. You know, they want people to be like raving, screaming lunatic fans for whatever it is that they're selling. And I, I had a few medical clients and that's kind of opened the door to a stream of referrals because there's so many positions that have walked that really fine line with, well, I don't want to say anything. You know, I have to be buttoned up and conservative and not really utilize social. But also what we're offering is , is groundbreaking. It's cutting edge and you know, the doctors, a lot of times our personalities themselves. So we're employing a lot of the same tactics that we've used for Oh wrapper for a plastic surgeon because they all want the same thing, which is those fans that will support whatever their ventures are, right? And there's this emergence of these sort of celebrity doctors now, right inside a bunch of these guys who are coming up who are, you know, I follow like Steven Gundry and yeah, you know , he's not so much the , the flashy profile, but he's certainly built a business around his, his medical degree, right. And, and the , the things that he's been standing for, right. And he's got a, you know, a unique position on, you know, all of the stuff he stands for and, and that sort of thing. But there's all these other, these other guys who are legitimate doctors but are building a business around it. And I think that's super interesting. Well, I think what we're seeing right now, which is, I mean, what a time to be alive, but all of these tactics that, and strategies that have been , um , kind of, Oh, well I can't have that or I can't do that because I'm not famous or I can't make this happen because I'm not this, that all of these strategies are accessible to everyone. Everyone, whether you're a physician, whether you have a little, a brick and mortar boutique on main street USA, if you're in direct sales, if you, I mean there is no barrier , there is no barrier because whatever you are there is somebody that needs it or somebody that can relate to that or somebody that can resonate. So if you're just putting yourself out there, your people are, they exist. You just got to find out . So you're not working with just anybody. So you find that like your ideal clients, do they, do they need to have some something going for them in terms of their personality that'll allow them to actually embrace that? Yeah, and you know, it's not even a matter of they have to have it. They just have to be open to finding it because everyone has it. Everyone has a thing. And even the most shy introverted, I don't want to make a video. I don't want it to I the the arms length. Even if your arms linked from anything media, you still have that thing. That's something that people will relate to, that people will find interesting or educational or entertaining. And so it's just a matter of, you know, let's, let's get to the thing. And so are you, are you helping them figure out how to, how to be that person? Yeah, and it's, you know, it's so funny. It's so funny Stephanie, because there are some days that I'm literally just not talking to any humans that I'm in front of my computer and I'm just typing away. And then there are other days that I honestly feel like, I don't know, like Claire Huxtable or Tony RO . I don't stump it cause I'm like, okay no , let's get to the bottom of this guys. Like when you say that, what, how does it make you feel? I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm just trying to get to the good stuff underneath the, you know, the cake and the underneath the icing. So it makes, it makes a day to day. Interesting. And are you finding like you're having to convince people that they can be at? Yeah . Do you ever go in like, like what do you look for with people? Do you ever go and , and sort of snipe them or are you waiting for them to come to you? Mmm , I've been really fortunate and that I would say a solid 95% of my business has just been referrals. Um, I'm sure there's some science or something there that's like, that's a good percentage. Um , but there are a few people were , I'll see the like [inaudible] you know, how you see something and all the pieces are there and they're like , do you know what, I've got the ribbon. Like you have all of the pieces. I just need to tie it together. Um, so you know, if I happen to come across somebody like that and like am might try to like come just work with me. Um, but you know, I think most people once they have that moment where they realize, Oh, I have like, I am exactly what I need to be. Um, now we just need to find the people that resonate with that. Once they realize that there's a crowd for everyone, then there are a lot more open and they're willing to, Mmm . I mean, I , I say play, they're willing to play with that. They're willing to play with their personality. They're willing to try some new things. And are you sticking, are you sticking to entertainment? I know you've been briefed branching out into medical. Are you considering looking for people in, like what, what is it that you really want from a customer? Is it in a certain industry or is it, is it some attributes that they have? Um, for me, what I like if I just look at all of my clients, you know, from a 30,000 foot view , um, the one thing that they all have in common is they have kind of a no kind of the star factor. But the secret is everyone has it. So it's just the differences. Are they coming to me with it or are we finding it in them, you know, are we creating it based on, you know, other areas of their life or business. And so I think for me, what I am looking for in clients that I'm excited to work with are people that are just open two seeing what, who they are to seeing what they have in themselves to seeing where their business can go and what it can do. [inaudible] so how are you working with people? So you work primarily one on one and what's, what's kind of the scope of the work that you will do with someone? Um , really what I'm trying to do and , and I would say , um , I'm definitely, I have gotten away from all of the web development because that was not something that excited me on a daily basis that , that made for a lot of bad days at work. So all of that's outsourced. Really what I'm doing is just focusing on content. If they need a social strategy, then we're going to jump in and make sure whatever they're saying on social aligns with their, you know, their business goals with their brand. Um, I would say pretty much everyone that I work with, we start out doing kind of a, either creating a brand from scratch or just freshing it up. And do you have a process that you go through for kind of extracting that and making sure that it's on point? Absolutely. Absolutely. So it's a, and it's an interview process and you know, I , I don't work with anybody. It's like, well, here's my details. Just make it happen. No, because if you don't care enough about how you are perceived to the world to be part of that process, then that says to me that you're [inaudible] all of your customer touch points are going to fall off. I'm not going to create a shiny new toy for them if they can't see the process through, if they're selling something, if they're selling services. Um, so I'm not just going to make something and hand it off and then walk away. We need to make sure that either through an extensive interview process, all, all of their touch points line up. And we, we really do look at their business holistically because it doesn't make sense to give them an expensive shiny brand or website or collateral if they don't have anything in place to make it work. Well that's it . It's , it's super interesting to me because I am moving into , um , working with clients. My sort of ideal clients right now are those people who have created sort of a body of work, right? And they have become almost a little bit of a celebrity in their space, whatever that might be. And these are, these are typically not people who are really embracing being a celebrity in their space is , it doesn't, it doesn't come naturally to them. They're thinkers, they're thought leaders. They are the people who, like I said, I've built a body of work and now they're backing into their business, right? And so they need to create a business underneath what, what they've created, right? This body of work. And they are often at the point where they've been traveling so much and all around the world to deliver their work and to speak, and they, they're tired, right? They want to , they want to create something underneath this that they can, they can make money from, from doing something other than just traveling. Right ? So in the same kind of way, these guys often aren't super clear on what their brand is. Um, they don't have a , uh, like a real business underneath w their , their work that they've, they've created and they're all , they're all starting from scratch. And so how do, how do you do that? Right? How do you, how do you back into a brand, or are these guys like you, you say you work with unconventional businesses, so what makes them unconventional? Are they already there in terms of though you actually just touched on a really [inaudible] prevalence, and I don't want to call it a problem because I absolutely see it as an opportunity. Mmm . But I think that for a lot of people who have, especially early adopters, you know, people that have embraced this whole content creation lifestyle so to speak, they just, they're doing the work and they're doing the work and they're doing the work and they're doing the work and they're doing the work and [inaudible] this brand has been created that might have been created accidentally. And what you need to do is to strip it down like [inaudible] . For it to be the most successful, you have to be able to distance yourself from the parts that aren't working. And that is, I would say easily one of the hardest things that anybody has to do. If they, if they're at that point where they just need to take it to the next level, they have to leave some things right where they are. And that's when you just have to have those real and sometimes difficult. And sometimes you know , emotional conversations, what are you doing? Like why are you saying the things that you need to say? Why are you creating this? Are you creating it? Because you need to create content to keep moving. Where are you creating this? The stories of, of works because that's in tune with who you are and what your real messages and until they can be clear on that, everything else is like , uh , what is that? Like the, the plates, the plates spinning in the air. Like they're all gonna fall down until that real specific why and for who gets clarified. And that's sometimes hard to do when you're already in the middle of it. Yeah. These guys tend to be quite academic like they have, they have created something that people love already, but they don't know how to turn that into a brand. Right. They don't know how to turn that into content. They don't know how to show up in the world. They've just kind of organically done it . Yeah. And so, you know, what, what do they need to do? How do they need to take that from, from something that's just kind of grown organically to refine it and really work it . Right. So, you know, I think the biggest thing, and I mean obviously this is something that you see a lot in , in entertainment and less in business, but if you've created this thing , um, if, if you have just like, like you were saying, organically created this thing that people are flocking to. A lot of times when you flip that switch and you're like, okay, now I need to do this from a business perspective and monetize it, then it's selling out. No, it's not selling out. It is 100% not ever, ever, ever, ever, ever selling out. You're already created . You have created, you are continuing to create this thing that people want, that they need. Why shouldn't you get paid for that? You're, you're changing lives by the things that you, whether you are just giving somebody a half an hour of happiness when they're listening to your podcast , whether you're giving somebody three minutes of escape from a bad situation, listening to their song, whether you're giving someone you know, an hour of escape from their crazy kids while you're giving them, they're filling their heads with Botox, whatever you're doing, something that provides value in people's life and you absolutely sure as shit need to be getting paid for it. And that's not selling out, that's all selling out, that's giving you the opportunity to do it on a bigger scale. I'm so glad. I'm so glad that you said that because I see this all the time, especially with people who are in the health and wellness, the space , our space. Right? And and in spirituality because they are , that's another one. It's like a Lynch mob, right? They get these people who are like, you shouldn't be charging for this blahdy blahdy blah. And I'm like, wait a second. As someone who had to go in and like find a solution to my own health issue that wasn't, that was very rare and there weren't a lot of people out there talking about it. The fact that I could find somebody that wears, providing a service that would help me was I would have paid anything for that. Right. So the, it's a, it's a real hard because apparently people who are in like health and wellness, they tend to be, you know, they tend to be very caring people and , and they , they expected by these, these folks who are like, you know, shaming them for wanting to charge money. But I look at it like, you know, maybe a little more relevant for your, your industry. Remember the potato salad guy? No. Okay. So the potato salad guy, he was , uh , he put on like one of the, the fundraising Kickstarter or something like that. He said, I'll make a potato salad for $10 or something like that. And you, and, and, and because it was so entertaining people he raised almost, yes, yes . The raised like hundreds of thousands of dollars. All of these people were going to him and saying, you should donate that to charity. This is wrong. It's shameful. Blahdy blah. I'm like, he provided entertainment. Every single one of those people parted with their $10 knowingly. And because they were entertained. Right? So who are we to say what's entertaining and what's not? The people who voted with their wallets were the ones who said that it was entertaining and they , right . Right. So who knows? I don't know what he ended up doing with the money and he did make his salad, but it was just like nobody cared whether they got the salad. They were, they were happy for like a brief moment of escapism and something to talk about. And you know, and one of the things, and I say this, I feel like I've had a version of this conversation with 100% of my clients. [inaudible] don't spend people's money for them. Don't decide that you're not going to put something out or you're not going to charge X number of dollars. Well, you know, maybe that's too much. Maybe if people can afford it or maybe like people will, we'll talk [inaudible] themselves out of making, I do it myself, but it is, people just talk themselves out , are making money all day, every day and you don't have to, you don't have to. It's not selling out. You're , you are doing something worthy and people will let you know if you're doing right where the invaluable, right. Voting with their wallets. Right. So yeah, this is a conversation I have a lot with people too, is just like get out of your customer's wallet . You can't make up stories about them because you don't know. Right. You don't know what they're going through. You don't know. You don't know why they don't want the value. Right. And you will not know why they decide to work with you and why they decide not to work with you. And it's a totally futile effort trying to understand that you just got to keep going. Right . And if you believe in the value of what you're providing, that's all that matters. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, that's, that is, Hmm . Probably my favorite part of what I do because I, you know, I'm not super mu spiritual and nothing like that, but I, I so strongly believe that 100% of purchasing decisions are driven by emotion, period. 100% . I don't care what the facts are and I know that you, and I think the same way on this whole BS that's out there with the, you know, the emotional fear-driven scarcity. No , there's enough for everybody. There's enough, there's enough money, there's enough, whatever, there's, you know, there's enough time you just got to reprioritize . And so, yeah, getting to the emotion of what is making them, you know, what is the emotion that we're marketing because that's, that's all marketing is, is just putting emotion out into the universe. Trying to make other people have emotions. That's it. That's it. Yeah . It boils down to that, doesn't it? And creating a bit of a rate and put that on a tee shirt, I would buy that and put it , you're creating a relationship with your customer. Right. And I don't mean in like the motherhood and Apple pie kind of way. It's like our relationship maybe that you bought something from me. Our relationship maybe that like look at influencers out there, we all feel close to them to the ones that we really like and we feel like we have relationship with them and that means they've done their job right. And so this foundation of emotion and relationship, like it is prevalent and it does not. It does not get created based on facts. No. So what does it get created on? Well it gets created and I think this is the hardest thing and I'm putting myself in this category, the hardest thing for anybody to understand and be okay with and then released out into the world. Whatever content you're creating, whether it's an Instagram image or a song or a book or whatever you're creating and then putting into the world, nobody's going to receive it the same way. Nobody, because everyone is approaching everything that they see through their own lens and their own lens has been built by their parents and their community and like just infinite number of variables. So you have to kind of detach from what the results are going to be. Now, don't detach from your goals, not detached from your business, but once you put things out there, whether it's a social media post, whether it's a, you know, a promo and add whatever, put it out there and people will react the way that they react. It's not all going to be great. It's not going to suck. People are going to see things the way that they emotionally are able to view them. So just put it out there and that's your power, right? That's exactly, exactly. Effective marketing tool. Cause half of marketing is repelling the people. You don't want to work with [inaudible] we don't want to be everything for everybody. No, that's exhausting. And it gets you nowhere. No , except for sure . Yeah. So is there a, is there a formula to being a good marketer? Is there a formula to building your influence? Unpopular opinion, time? Um, I think, yeah, I think that the formula is okay . Just tapping into yourself first so that you confidently know what you have to offer. And being able to see how that fits into other people's lives. So like I, I don't want to work with attorneys. I don't like creating that content. I don't have, like, my superpower is not fluff. I'm not going to sit there and, and read, you know, a legal novel and try to make that exciting. Like I just don't, I don't want to do it. So the formula is figure out who you are and what you want and then you, you will then know which ways you can show up in the world. And again, that's if you're a small business, a big business, dr a rapper , direct, silly, whatever, you cannot market anything and you cannot help people with their marketing unless you have a strong sense of self. And that shit's hard to find sometimes . But this, this to me is, is something, and I know you've been in the digital marketing world as long as I have and maybe even longer, but this to me is what has really pivoted. Oh my God, that word has really pivot change. We've had a conversation about the word pivot , um, which has really changed in the last sort of decade. And this focus we see the rise of the solo entrepreneur now, which I think is really exciting. And I, I work almost exclusively with solo entrepreneurs and small businesses. Right? But this , the rise of the, the personality profile and how important your personality and who you are is to your business. And I know that there's been a lot of rejection around this in, in worse cause we're still, we're still trying to get used to it. But sure. In the old world of business when, you know, before we had digital media to work with, talking about yourself was a no, no, right? It was like who the hell wants to know what you ate for breakfast? Well everybody now, right? And it's, and it's , it's, it's still rejected in some ways as like superficial. But actually what you're doing is you're creating a sense of self with the people that want to work with you and that want to buy from you and the Mo. And it seems to me like we've, we've had this sort of epiphany that , um, me knowing you as a friend is going to make it much more likely that I'm going to want to buy something from you. And so how do we make a whole bunch of friends when we are, you know, that doesn't scale. So we kind of make friends by, by showing people our personal lives. It doesn't mean we need to dirty laundry. It doesn't mean we need to, we need to show anything we're uncomfortable with, but we need to be people first. That right there, that that is the beginning and the end is, you know, when you, when you're sitting there with the client like, well, you know, what we really want to do is just focused on our SEO and just to dessert . Okay. All of those things are great and I'm happy to hear you want to focus on these things. Awesome. But who are you? I mean really like who are you? And I'm not, that's not an accusatory or critical question, but let's be real clear on the version of you that we're putting out into the world because there's not a number of keywords or ranking in Google that's gonna drive your business, who you are, drives your business and all of these other things. So you're still a secondary. There's some objections to that, right? One of them is like, I'm a really private person. Another one is , um, you know, I'm, I'm uncomfortable with this. I'm scared to put myself out there. Another one, and I think this was me for a very long time, is like, I'm just not that interesting, right? Like I , I was , I don't know what I would talk about. I'm fricking boring, right? Like I can talk about business till the, till I'm blue in the face and do that. But for the rest of my life, I mean, what the heck am I going to share? I am boring asF , right? So why do you like how do you do this with people, right? How do you get them to become these people? People when they're in their own world, they don't have that, you know, they don't feel like they've got that much to share. Well I think , um, and I'm absolutely guilty of this and so I can, I can speak on this from both sides, is sometimes you're just used to yourself. You're just used to the things that you do. You're used to like, you might do the cool like, okay, let's go back to when I was in the Navy and I worked up in the tower and my job every single day was watching planes take off the front of the aircraft carrier. And then I would go down to the LSL platform and my little blonde 1819 year old self was stealing on the back of an aircraft carrier in the golf with a bunch of pilots, making sure landing gear came down. I'm sorry. That's cool . Shit. That is unbelievably cool. But I did it every day . So it was used to it. So it's like, Oh, I gotta go to work again. And so I think just finding another set of eyes, a different perspective shows you also things that you're used to on board with about yourself. There's a whole subset of people that are terribly excited about it. They're super into it. You know, on Friday nights we go drink wine at Kroger and come home and Watson Mandalorian not terribly exciting, but do you know how many people I talk about? Maybe Yoda with like a billion. So it's just your Monday and your boring is definitely someone else's jam and it just takes the ability to look at it from a different perspective. That's it. It's having that mirror. Right. And I think that that's a service that people like you can provide. And I mean , I know that as I've been talking to people, you know more and more about myself and my own story and my business, the things that people latch onto , I would never, ever have thought were all that fascinating. Like they're just things that I did. Like I flew planes and I played roller Derby and I, you know, I am a kite boarder and like they're just things that I did and I, and people are like, Oh , that's so cool. That's interesting . I'm like, really? Huh ? You know, who knows? Who knows what little piece, this little story that you have to tell is gonna resonate so much with people. So how do you, like how do you extract that? Um, well, I don't want to necessarily give away trade secrets. It's not really a secret. Um, but the one thing that I do with every client is ask them. So what? So like, okay, well who are you? Well, I'm so and so, so what? Well, that's important because I provide the service. So what, well, you know, and then there's, there's a period, there's in the middle of this is people get real defensive. But the, the point of the game is so what, so what? So what, so what, so what until until you find what the emotion is and that emotion dictates all of your content. And so you know, you provide a service. Okay . Well, so what, well, that frees up people's time so that they have more time with their kids. Okay. Well, so what? Well, so they want to be good parents. Well , so and so the core of it is you're providing something that is allowing someone else to create memories with their children of who's going to say no to that, you know? So you just, nobody wants to hear your elevator pitch. Nobody wants to hear your resume. Nobody wants to hear all of the letters and all of the certifications that come after your name. Who cares? So what, what are you doing for them? So what, yeah, I love that. I love distilling that. That's, I mean, it is, it's the bread and butter of finding your clients and selling. Okay. So let's go back to your business. So what has growth meant to you? Like what's worked for you in terms of growth? So, you know, you're asking that at a really interesting time because I have taken this whole fourth quarter of 2019 to [inaudible] to pull a Marie Forleo to make my life and figure out a bowl. Um, I had some pretty significant life changes this year and my business was growing at like a weird, a weird rate and it wasn't making sense for my life. So I've had to play the silhouette game with myself and figure out what do I really want to do, what am I really care about and how can I make this fulfilling client work fit in with my life. So my, my significant other and I like we've , we have now cohabitated and you know, he's got seven kids and so every other week it is wait, like seven, seven, seven between the ages of four and 17. So we have like super crazy busy and then a week of peace and it's super crazy busy and then a week a piece . So I've really needed to kind of , um, readjust my workflow so that it can fit with my life flow. And , um, I'm, I feel really fortunate that I'm at the position that at this point in my life where I'm able to do that and I don't have to, you know, burn it all down around me to make something new grill . I'm able to some more of that. So what that has meant for me is I'm doing a lot less favors, a lot less discounts , a lot less. Oh, no problem. I'll take care of it for you. Um, and so that has really helped me distill down the things that, that kind of fueled my fire. And so that's allowing me to go into 20, 20 with a tighter kind of a tighter ship , um, and a better, a clearer focus and more purpose so that I'm ultimately able to serve my clients better. Um, so growths in a short sentence, a growth for me has been taking a step back and shrinking a little bit. I love that. And, and it's a very honest answer. It is. You know, you and I have had lots of conversations about this BS that's out there, right? With the hustle printers and the , the hustle hard and the data. And you know, that I stand for, I stand for slow business, I stand for intentional business and I love that growth for you has meant actually slowing down and taking stock. So, so we, we grow in these sort of, these cyclical, you know, the cyclical patterns. So what's next for you? I mean, like what, what does 2020 look like for you? Is there growth in 2020? So I think from me , um , I am, I'm finding that as the dust settles a little bit, I don't have to create my own niche because it's coming to me and strains. Um, medical is a huge , um, and you know, I'm seeing a lot more in the real estate environment. Um, I'll always have a foot in entertainment , um, just because that's what made me , um, but that is an exhausting, Hmm . Brutal industry and [inaudible] I was thinking about it the other day and I don't have the patience for this and Oh my gosh, how amazing is it that I don't have to, I don't have to, I have enough fuel. Yeah . Uh , irons in the fire that I don't have to rely on that I don't have to do the soul sucking. You know, I love creating and I love creating something that so many people are going to enjoy. Um, but just the day to day of, of that whole industry is something that I am fortunate that I can [inaudible] distance myself from a little bit, but still remain close enough that I can use all of those same strategies for all of my other clients. It's kind of a one win . Yeah. So what, is there a, is there a specific , uh, area you see yourself growing into? Is there something that you're particularly interested in? I mean, Stephanie, I feel like this is really ironic because I believe it was the very first conversation I ever had with you. I'm finally going to launch my course. This has been three, two or three years. I don't know. It's been a minute since I started on this bad boy. Um, and yeah, it's finally finally about to go out into the world. Well, I'll tell somebody, what is it called? Boy, the brand. Um , so I, I'm a psychotic Libyan fans , specifically new kids on the block and the other ones are great too. Um, and what I discovered is when you look at a boy, the end, and this is all this is interchangeable, but using a boy band as an example, they all followed the same formula. And that same formula is exactly how you come up with any brand. So, I mean , what we're going to do is just teach people how to have those fans that will just lose their mind over whatever it is you're selling, hopefully with some choreography. But whatever. My son wants to start a pool boy band. Oh my gosh. That's who really, he's right and help him. I teach him how to do a full , full eight count quarter . He actually loves singing and he's a really good singer. He's got a really nice voice. But he watches the boy bands videos like you wouldn't believe. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's so impressive. And that other one that came out that I don't remember and hope to . Yes. Yes. It's a thing right now. I don't understand. Yeah . I don't take taken over Twitter, but I'll listen. I'll talk boy bands all day. Yeah. Oh, I know. And so I love this boy band. Boy band your brand. And I remember when you were first starting to work on this, what, like years ago, I was like two or three years ago. Yeah. So is this, is this like one of those things? And I have a , I have a theory that this is what happens is like these things come into our lives when they're ready. Right. And what was, you know, what, what was the condition like back when we first started talking a couple of years ago that that didn't allow that to happen? Like, what's changed? So there's a lot of things that , that have, I mean , I'm really, 100% of my life has changed since then. Um, you know, it just wasn't, ironically , I wasn't comfortable with the visibility that comes with with that, that should come with, you know, a launch. Um, I just had my own life stuff that I needed to handle and , um, I just feel like if I would have launched them and let's say it was wildly successful , um, I would have been ready for the other side of that. And , um , I really need it because so much of my business has been built just like doing the next thing and doing the next thing and doing the next thing. And so it really wasn't until this year that I was able to be a little bit more clear on what I was doing and why I was doing it and why it mattered. And so now I feel like I have a better foundation so that I can launch that. And it doesn't shake the foundation. It doesn't, you know , it's just part of it. It's just an additional thing. I think a lot of people get caught up in their plans, right? And they have these check marks, right? And they're like, I need to do this. I need to do that. And listen, if you had, if you had gone in , launched that when you weren't ready, you know, you a may not have gone so well and B, that would've left you going, well, I can't do courses. Right. And we have to be really intuitive in our business. We have to listen and we have to know that, yeah, we can commit to a bunch of time and effort to something and and, and not launch it right and not go forward with it. At the moment I did the same thing. I built a course and now I'm , and I've decided to wait until the new year to launch it and it was the right decision. The , the, the conditions are going to be better. I'm going to be more ready and that's just the way it goes. So it's not like no one's going to die if you decide that you're not gonna, you know, you're not going to go for it . It's funny because for me, I got into the whole like , I don't know, shame cycle. Well , I said I was going to do it and then I didn't do it. Well, why didn't I do it? And well then that messes with your head and it messes with your confidence. Well, if I didn't put it out when I said I was going to put it out, then maybe I shouldn't do it at all. And [inaudible] no, the bottom line is it's good stuff. It is entertaining set of , of modules that okay is not just doing an endless video series. Um, it's not a course to start and then not finish. I mean everybody says that and everybody does it, but you know what I mean? So I feel like I needed to be, I need to just figure out my own stuff so that I could competently move in this direction and um, I dunno , you , you've gotta be ready for success and I was not. That's amazing advice and I think a lot of people need to hear that right now. Um , okay. I have a question that I asked for everybody and I can't wait to hear your answer to this. I know we have had conversations about this many, many times. So what do you think is the biggest gap between what's real? We're all about being real here. What's real and what we hear out there in the online business world. Whew . That is, okay. So here's the deal. It's all real. Even the bullshit, because even the bullshit, we'll work for the bullshitters. Mmm . You just have to find the thing that you resonate with. Like I tend to be like, like here it is putting it all out there and you love it or you hate it, you buy it or you don't, whatever. Um, and I'm a little more, I'm not super blunt, but I'm just pretty matter. I , I approached things from kind of like a matter of fact standpoints. There are some people [inaudible] that really, really need the woo and there are some people that really, really need that degrading like hustle, hustle or you're worthless. And so I think that the , uh, the, the reality, sorry, we've got an appraiser here taking pictures of , um, the reality is actually somewhere in the middle. Like you've just got to find your thing and whatever works for you. That's the real thing. And I think what I see happen a lot is that if you're firmly in the hustle hustle camp, you see all the woo and then you either write it off and think that's stupid. Or you wonder what you're missing. Either way you're not hustling. If you on the Wolfcamp , you see all these hustlers, hustlers with their land bows in there models and you're like, what am I, you know, if they're making all this money, what am I doing wrong? The bottom line is it's nothing is for everyone and that's what's real. That is the only thing that's real. What's real for you is you find your thing that works and whatever it is, all the rest of it, you can roll your eyes up [inaudible] or not or just ignore it and, and carry on with whatever. Yeah. Okay. Good. I like that answer. That's , that's, that's an awesome answer. And it gives us a lot more like piece , cause I think we feel like we have to raise our flags and be like, I'm in this camp. But really you're just throwing a lot of your energy into something that just doesn't matter. Right. Exactly. Okay. What do you wish you knew before you got started? I think the biggest thing that I wish, well, Texas, Texas is what I wish I knew first. Um, and budgeting appropriately for the ebbs and flows of, of, you know, business ownership. Uh , but no, outside of that, I think that I , I wish that I knew that I was able to follow my gut a lot more frequently than I, than I was. I talked to myself and second guessing myself out of a lot of things and I, I enabled my early clients to do the same thing. And that's crap. That is crap all your gut, it's going to be right. It's going to be the right move even if it feels scary. Yeah. I wish that I would known that earlier. I agree. And I think part of it is developing a , uh , a skill to be able to know what that actually means for you. Exactly. I have a feeling I think a lot of people have to talk to work from their feelings a lot more than they do. And I'm so not a Wu per se , but that's just real, right? Like I feel something in my gut. It's actually like a physical reaction. Exactly. I'm just going to go with that even though I can't explain it yet. Yeah. Yeah. All right . Okay. We're coming up on time. Um , I want to thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. Obviously we could talk for a really long time. Can you tell our listeners how they can find you? So you can find me@nineteenthirteencompany.com. That's one nine one three company and.com . Um, or if you just want to reach out to me and be like, Hey weirdo , uh , you can find me on Instagram at Nikki says, what? That's an I K. K. I that's the only way you spell Nikki . And you mentioned you had had a free offer to share with our listeners. We'll put all of this information in the show notes, but tell us a little bit more about what you've got for them. You , well , we'll just do a quick and easy Instagram on it and we can take a look at what it is you're putting out into the world via Instagram and make sure that it's lining up lists with what you think you want to say. Awesome. Well I think maybe even I need to do that. Um , awesome. Amazing. So thank you Nikki. That's an amazing gift. That's an awesome gift and go ahead and take advantage of that because Nikki knows her staff. All right , thank you. Thank you. Again, that's a wrap for this episode. Such an amazing conversation. Make sure you go and check out Nicole, Nikki , Nikki spelled correctly, her incredible offer and thanks so much for tuning in today to hear this story. The episodes that you're listening to are all featuring members of my free private Facebook group called the real deal business coaching group where we have daily prompts to keep you focused on building your business and sharing your everyday challenges. Biweekly virtual coffee chats, open coaching and member support from this incredible community. Everyone in there is doing the same thing you are. If you want to join our community or if you want to be featured on this show, I would love for you to come and hang out with us in the group links in the show notes or search up real deal, business coaching and Facebook to find us. And finally, I would love for you to join us for our next episode where we're going to be speaking to Barbara Evans, who's a designer and brand champion for businesses that want to make a big difference in their little world. 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