November 17, 2022
Tara Reid - Business Building for Introverts

Tara Reid is a multi-passionate entrepreneur and introvert who helps other introverted business owners develop sales and marketing strategies that work best for their more reserved styles. In this episode, Tara shares her lon...

Tara Reid is a multi-passionate entrepreneur and introvert who helps other introverted business owners develop sales and marketing strategies that work best for their more reserved styles.

In this episode, Tara shares her long business journey from starting and selling a jewelry business to becoming an online service provider. Tara’s business has grown quite a bit since her beginnings in 2007 to what she does today - offering programs to help creative entrepreneurs build a freedom-centered business and a membership where she coaches introverted entrepreneurs on how to market their businesses.

Tara describes the realization that she could market her business without burning out as an introvert, how she began to attract and help other introverts with the same struggles, and the marketing techniques that worked well for her as an introvert.

Tara reveals how she decided to start her membership, The Introvertpreneur Club, the different ways she supports her members, and why mindset issues and imposter syndrome are particularly challenging for introverts.

Tara goes on to share how she uses attraction marketing to get clients, her focus on the value ladder to create her content and offers, and the big realization she had in her early business as a virtual assistant after suffering burnout from growing too fast.

Finally, Tara talks about how she experiments with new things in her business, why she's stepped away from Instagram, the most important advice she has for other people who are building a business, and the one difference she sees between what we hear out in the business world and what is really happening.

Skip to Topic:

6:19 - The mindset shift that helped Tara leverage her strengths as an introvert
7:44 - How Tara made the online business world work for her as an introvert
9:40 - How Tara uses her energy and how she’s feeling to guide her
16:50 - Two key elements that help introverts feel empowered as business owners
19:21 - The mindset obstacles Tara had to overcome as an introverted business owner
21:01 - The marketing tactics Tara found that worked best for her in getting clients as an introvert
21:59 - Tara’s approach to developing content that attracts clients
23:22 - Mistakes Tara made in her early journey as a virtual assistant
25:41 - How Tara learned to embrace being multi-passionate and have fun in her business
31:26 - Tara’s advice to entrepreneurs about creating offers
37:11 - The biggest piece of advice Tara has based on what she’s learned on her business journey

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Welcome to the Real People Real, Business Show. My name is Stephanie Hayes and I'm a business strategist who loves to speak with like-minded entrepreneurs who share their real stories and the gritty details on building their businesses. On this show, you won't hear about glamorized entrepreneurship journeys that you see online. You won't be told how to make six figures in six weeks. Instead, you can expect to hear real, vulnerable and inspiring stories you can relate to that have helped create the foundation for each of our guests businesses. Goodbye, boss Babes. Hello, real life entrepreneurs today. I'm so excited to welcome Tara Reid. Tara is a multi-passionate entrepreneur who works to support introverted VAs and online service providers so that they can develop an authentic marketing and sales strategy. Since 2007, Tara has built her. Online business to serve women who are looking to grow freedom centered businesses. To date, she's led more than 6,000 creatives to more sustainable business strategy through her programs like The Freelancer Society and Searches to Leads, Accelerators, along with her membership, The Introvert preneur Club. That is a mouthful. I don't even know if I can say it . But welcome to the show, Tara, and thanks so much for taking the time to share your story. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I feel like, um, your podcast and the, the message behind it is like my brand value in a nutshell, , like being authentic and not sharing the 10 k months in six weeks or whatever kind of messaging. Um, I really love sharing the real behind the scenes stuff that people don't necessarily show on social media. Well, I think that the idea behind the show was that we can start telling stories that will make other entrepreneurs say, Oh, that sounds like me, or that's something I can do too. Because everything that we get taught in business school and business courses is all about the cookie cutters, right? It's all about what worked for someone else, and I wanna hear what worked for you and what worked for all the individuals. So let's dive in. Tell me a little bit about how you got to where you are. Right. Yeah, it's definitely been a long journey with many different businesses and pivots and challenges, and, um, things to work through. So when I first started in 2007, I was actually building, uh, my first business, which was a handmade jewelry business, and. Through that business, I kind of fell in love with marketing. I already had a background in website design and seo, so people in the handmade space started seeing that I was getting success without showing up on social media all the time. So they were starting to reach out and ask me for help. So that's how I kind of naturally moved into the service world and creating courses and helping other entrepreneurs. And I actually ended up selling that first business and going all in on helping other entrepreneurs. About 2015, I made the, the full time shift. So 2015, and here we are, 2022 has been who the last seven years have been mostly focused on coaching, on helping introverted entrepreneurs kind of following your footsteps or find their own footsteps. Yeah, for the, for the most part, I think it was around 2020 that I launched my membership because I was just, I started to attract a lot of other introverts, , just through who I am, and I felt like I really need to create something for introverts that is relatable that they can connect with that isn't. Hey, here's how to force yourself to show up on video. Here's how to do reels, and if you don't do them, you can't be successful. I really wanted to help them realize that there's other ways that you can market your business that are going to be more sustainable for you, that are going to feel better. Um, cuz I know at, at the beginning of my journey with my first business, like I took all that advice. I, I was. Showing up on reels. I was forcing myself to do things that were really uncomfortable and I started to get burned out and feel like if this is what it's gonna be like, why do I not just stay at my salary nine to five job? Because at least it's not like stressful. I don't have to. Force myself to do things that I don't want to. So that's really where the, the introvert Premier Club was born. And then I launched the podcast, the Introvert Premier podcast, and I host the introvert premier virtual summit to bring more introverts together. And yeah, it's just been a really. Amazing experience, and this is something that I wished was available, that I learned when I was first starting Well, funny enough, I'm an extrovert, but I have, like, as I get older, I have, um, you know, I need to check out for, you know, I, I can go and I can go and I can go, and then I need to like, Go away for a little . So we all have a little bit of that in us, but most of my clients are introverted. They're, they're, they're, and they all struggle with the very same thing. They all want to figure out a way to show up to market their businesses to sell without having to do what is perceived to be like. You can only be successful in entrepreneurship if you're, you know, jazz hands extrovert. And that's just not true. And I know it's not true and you know, it's not true. But I think. Having a place for, for all the introverts to convene. I think a couple of years ago there was a real introvert rebellion where they were like, Listen, we can do this too. Mm-hmm. , And we are starting to see a lot more of it. I have a client who actually, um, created a course for highly sensitive business owners and, and a lot of those are, are like extreme introverts as well. So I really love that you're pulling all of this together. And is this like, what did you tap into in your own? Your own personality and your own, you know, way of being that helped you get through business. I, I think a big thing for me as a, as an introvert, cause I've always been an introvert, I've always been shy, I've always had social anxiety, um, even as a child. So I, I think growing up like that for a long time, people looked at being quiet or an introvert as something to be ashamed of that needs to change. That is a negative trait. And it wasn't until I started running my business and realizing like, this is not for me if this is what it's gonna be like every day. Um, and it wasn't until I was like, Okay. I just need to accept who I am and my strengths as an introvert and figure out ways that I can tap into those and get the same results that feel good to me. And it was kind of that self-awareness, self-acceptance piece that really kind of shifted and just everything clicked into place after that. So what is, so, what is it? What works for you? And I imagine that what works for you is, is, you know, likely gonna work for others, but how do you, how did you figure out how to be in this kind of business world, the entrepreneurship world, and be true to yourself? Yeah, so for me, I, I definitely talk a lot about and focus on, um, so email marketing and blogging are like my primary, um, content creation where I hang out, where I nurture and grow my audience. But then you also need to add in methods that are going to get more leads and more people into your world. So, Instead of social media, I decided to rely on organic SEO to get organic traffic and leads. And then also, um, visibility events. So borrowing other people's audiences, whether that's speaking at a virtual summit, whether that is being a guest on a podcast like this. Um, and then that also led to starting my own podcast, which I think it podcasting. If you love sharing your story, you just don't wanna be on video, I think podcasting can be really great. Um, and then also Pinterest is always a favorite of mine. I was a former Pinterest manager and had a Pinterest agency for a while. That was one of my pivots and shifts. But, um, those are all ways. That you can grow your business and be out there and be visible without feeling like you constantly have to network. You constantly have to hustle and find your next client or your next customer, and you have to show up on video every day and host live events and do all the things that you know, all the things that work for extroverts, which is great for them. Like they're using their strengths. And I think as introverts we need to do the same. I would actually say that's not even true because I'm an extrovert and I hate, I like, I, I hate showing up on social media. I hate being part of social media like I do. It's just not one of my strategies and I don't know why. It's never been interesting to me. I don't like doing reels. I don't like short form content like, So I don't even know if it's an introvert, extrovert thing, but there's certainly an a layer of it that makes it harder for introverts. Mm-hmm. and I like just have a lot of experience with introverted clients and one of the last things they wanna do is, um, Constantly have to show up and be in the spotlight. And there's a whole other side of this, which is about managing energy. And I think that those two things go hand in hand very, very often. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. One thing I always, Oh, it, I use this phrase a lot following my energy. Um, so when it comes to offers, what I'm doing in business, what I feel like doing, I'm really big on how, how do I feel about this? Like, it, maybe I planned it all out, but am I really. Feeling it right now. If not, maybe it's not something that I need to actually be doing right now. Maybe I need, I wanna do something else that I'm passionate about. And I think that kind of ties into the introvert slash multi-passionate , um, to allow myself the freedom to follow my energy. And I think that's something I knew in my membership. A lot of introverts as well are secretly multi-passionate and struggle to like niche down to one thing, which I think can make them feel. Even more forced into a box if they try to, like, they're, they're forcing themselves to do things and I think, I think it's good to force yourself to try new things. Just to see if, like it's fear that's holding you back, but if you try something and it's just not, you're not feeling it, it's just not something that you can do sustainably, then you don't have to, you can find something else. Yeah. And then one of the things I hear, like they're all these, these little things that are sort of coupled together. Um, and then, you know, they usually get explained as, Oh, I'm an introvert, but I find that a lot of introverts also, Need a lot of confidence before they're, they're able to go and do something new and the, the clarity around what they're doing. And then I've seen, you know, I had one client who came to me in the first meeting and she's like, I won't do this. I won't do this, I won't do this, I won't do this. I'm extremely introverted, blah, blah, blah. Well, guess what she's doing now, This, this, and this, because, Yes, she needs to manage her energy and yes, she'll never be the person that's out there doing like crazy video stuff or whatever, but once she got clear on what she was doing, so showing up for podcast interviews, for example, turns out she's really good at them. Mm-hmm. and it wasn't so much about. The fact that she didn't like to be on them, it was that she wasn't sure what her message was. And once we got clear on that, she's done quite a few of them and she actually really enjoys them. So who knows? Right? So there's like, I think there's all these enmeshed sort of layered things that keep us away from the things that we. Could do or could explore doing. And once we can peel back those layers, I think then we can surface those activities that we really actually don't like and you don't have to do them, right? Mm-hmm. , we don't need hundreds of clients. We need a few. Mm-hmm. . Now you have interestingly moved into a membership, which actually can be quite energy intensive and a lot of clients who have read memberships and really discovered just how much. They actually take. So tell me a little bit about how you ended up in that business model and how you're managing it and how you're managing to lead a membership as an introvert.


Yeah, so something that, So I did shift the membership the year in January after doing kind of an audit on the content, the membership, the structure, and how I was feeling about things because for the first two years I was doing, Here's a 12 month, um, content calendar. So these are the topics. I'm gonna create content around each of these things. And I realized that I started dragging my feet on creating content every single month because I mean, I would plan a topic eight months, and then August would come around and I'm like, I really don't wanna create slides for this or train this right now. Like, it's not something that I, I wanna do. Then I took a look at the numbers and I was like, the, the members aren't even really checking out the like new monthly content. They're there for the community for the support, so, I decided to, in January, stop doing the pre-planned monthly content. It's really, whenever content is needed, I'm going to create it and you're going to get it. But I added in more support because that's really what it, what they wanted. They wanted the more support. So before that, we just had one monthly coaching call, and now we have one monthly coaching call, and then two days of Voxer office hours. The introverts absolutely love Voxer office hours. Um, so many more members utilize that than show up for the monthly call. And I think it just goes back to, um, having to show up on, even if your video is not turned on, just. You, you expel energy, just watching and listening live. So, um, I really, yeah, that was a good decision. doing the Voxer office hours, especially for that particular audience and group of people and it's, it's been amazing. And yeah, I'm continuing to grow the membership. We still usually do a monthly workshop, um, but it's not pre-planned like months ahead of time. It's like, what do my members need right now? What kind of workshop can I put together and add to the membership library? Yeah, I love it. And I think that being in community, I would expect because your people, your client, your ideal clients sort of identify this way and identify at a very kind of emotional level that just being in community with each other is, is their desire. And if you can make them feel supported and create, create relationships, that sort of thing sounds like it's pretty good. Um, you know, a pretty good little business model for a membership because it's such a draw. Like, it's not the content, it's not the, it's not the like, endless curriculum. It's the, it's the feeling of like being around your people and that kind of like mm-hmm. because it is, you know, that's a new thing, relatively new thing in the business world that. People who are, you know, who are quite introverted, can be very successful in business. And it's not always what we think. You know, introverts aren't necessarily always the sort of shy in the corner type people, it's just that their energy comes from being on their own. Mm-hmm. , I know a lot of introverts who are very social, but just need to temper. Their social activities. Right? Yeah, so there's, there's a big variety of it. I call it like a introvert scale, so I'm always like, I'm on, I'm on the like high end . I have the anxiety, the social awkwardness. I'm very quiet. And then there's people on like the middle that, you know, some introverts love doing videos and. Getting in front of a group and being on stage, but then they need to go away for like several days to recharge. Um, so yeah, it's just, just depending on, on what you love and, and what your specific traits and boundaries are, what do you think that they need to hear to make them feel more empowered as business owners? I think it goes back to what you said about, um, clarity and confidence. I think that's a big piece. Like I did one of the workshops that I did, I turned into a workshop that anyone can buy cuz it, I was like, this is, this needs to be in front of even more people. Um, I actually called it Clarity to Confidence Workshop, , and I was like, It, it just makes sense. I feel like a lot of, not necessarily introverts, but even any entrepreneur who. Um, hate selling says that they hate selling, they don't wanna seem salesy, They never talk about their offers enough. I feel like it's because they don't have that clarity piece. And you know, once you're really clear on your values, what your business is, who you are, who you help, I feel like that just makes everything else, especially selling much easier. Yeah, and I, so again, I think that the whole introvert thing has really been packaged up and there's like a whole, like, there's a whole other layer of stuff that if you're introvert that everybody deals with, but if you're introverted, it becomes more, more challenging for you. But, Also women in my generation, I expect I'm quite a bit older than you, but in my generation and even younger, are still coming out of the the, the culture where women were. Most valued if they were nice and if they were quiet and if they were, you know, demure. And so as business owners for us to go and talk about ourselves and to talk about our work and ask for business was always seen as pushy or you're not nice or you're not respecting other people or, You're not quiet enough. And so layer that on with someone who is, is naturally more, um, shy or introverted. It's like it's really hard. Like that becomes really hard. So I think we have to break down a lot of the mindset stuff, a lot of the cultural stuff, a lot of the social stuff, a lot of the emotional stuff. And then the introversion is, is what's left. And then you manage your energy around that. So I think that like, it's like the HSPs, right? Like everybody kind of gets bundled up into this other thing, but you start pulling it threads in the sweater and there's all sorts of other things going on that when layered with the introversion or the, you know, the, the highly sensitive, um, attributes. It like, it feels like it's, Im. Yeah. Cause I, I know, um, especially with mindset like, um, imposter syndrome, comparing yourself, like, these are things all entrepreneurs I feel like, struggle with at, at times. But I know for, for me personally, I would get sucked into it, and it would take me a while to get out of that kind of, especially comparison. I was very bad at comparing myself and getting, just consuming everybody else's offers and being like, Oh, I can't do something. This person already has something like this. And, um, who would buy this from me when this person is, you know, helping introverts. It's like, it, it's, it's a very interesting thing. So yeah, there's a lot of mindset. Obstacles that come up, but I feel like if you're an introvert, if you're a highly sensitive person, it can be even harder to kind of overcome them. A hundred percent. Uh, like it's, you know, it's a thing for sure, but I think you can break apart the, like, the root of the problem. And I think a lot of people wrap it up and just say, Well, I'm an introvert so I can't, but actually like, start breaking down and start breaking down. And this is what I do with a lot of my clients is. Figuring out like what pieces are actually affecting you and which pieces are, are truly just un like uncomfortable for you because of that's who you are. So if we can at least address the other stuff, it opens up the options for them and. Allows them to explore some, some new stuff. So tell me a little bit more about how you are finding your own clients. So you're getting people into your membership, you are finding clients to consume some of your products. Tell me a little bit more about your own marketing tactics. Yeah, so for me it, it really ties back to like, I love creating content. So for me, Blogging is where I'm creating the long form content that I can then repurpose to emails. I do a lot of, um, sales funnels, so I have automated, um, sales sequences so I don't have to feel like I have to write new sales emails. They're already running, which is fantastic. Um, same with organic traffic. If, because I focus a lot on SEO and optimizing my website, if somebody comes through. Google search and organically finds one of my blog posts, then they go to my, um, freebies, sign up for freebie, get on my email list. Like that is kind of the natural flow and I love that. I don't really have to like go out and find them. It's more about attraction marketing. Yeah. And what are the topics that you are really attracting folks around? Um, so I have a lot, I focus a lot on, um, value ladders. So I have different, I, I think I have like 10 different value ladders around different topics because I'd have so many different offers and things that I talk about as, as a multi passionate. So I have, um, one. Content pillar, Value ladder, where I talk a lot about sales funnels. That also kind of ties into some of the messaging as like how a, how awesome they are. Also for introverts, um, to set up and have running and then. I have one around creating content that leads into my offers. Like I have a course around creating content that's going to attract clients. I have, um, content kits available for service providers and certain niches, so I'm always focusing on the value ladder in terms of my offers, and then I'm creating the content around that to kind of feed into each offer ladder. Okay, so you are, you are really, um, relying on your content marketing and your, your pull. But you started out as a va, didn't you? I did, yeah. And so is there anything left of that business or is that, you know, that's in the, the rear view mirror? Um, mostly in, in the rear view mirror, just because I found, like at one time when I was working strictly one to one services work as a VA doing all the things, like I offered every single service out there, blog writing, SEO services, um, general admin, va, like everything I found that I, I was definitely undercharging. I definitely took on way too many clients, um, because I was undercharging and it was hard for me to say no to clients at that time, um, that I knew weren't necessarily a good fit for me and how I wanted to work. And. It just led to a really awful situation for me where I was just, I was started to get burnt out again and really exhausted, just like I did with my, my jewelry business. I experienced burnout with that business because it grew so fast and got so big so quickly, and then when I moved strictly to VA services, I started to feel the same way. So I was like, I, I need to shift things. And that's where I kind of moved into more digital products, more courses, more. Coaching and the only services I offered after that was a v i P day, which is much more aligned with my main values, which is flexibility and freedom. I, I don't wanna feel like I'm, uh, kind of half employee where I'm clocking in and clocking out on my own computer. So, um, I think with v i P days, that really allows me to go back into the flexibility factor. Yeah, that honestly, I'm in the same boat right now where, you know, I kind of expand and contract and expand and contract, and I'm back to the place where I only do VIP days. I only do intensives. And then, you know, for some clients, all keep them on boxer support and yes, the introverts love the boxer support. Mm-hmm. , I do too. Right. But I think like being able to be flexible in your business model is something that people don't realize that they can do and they think they have to adopt something and just stick with it forever. But you like, where did you find sort of the permission to experiment like you have? That is a really good question, . So yeah, I mean I have right now eight different revenue streams in my business or types of offers or types of, um, revenue generating things as I categorized them. Um, I think what really gave me the permission was I connected with Elizabeth Goddard, who is amazing and I joined her. Signature program, which is, um, basically a coaching program, but, um, called Profitable Playground. And she really focuses on like creating a business that feels fun and allowing yourself the, um, well she wears her onesies all the time, right? Yeah. . Yeah. I love the onesies . Um, and yeah, that, that was really like what I needed. It like, kind of gave me permission to be like, Okay, I. I'm multi-passionate. I can just figure out a way to make it that work for me without trying to like force myself like I did with the Pinterest management agency, because I mean, I've done that before. I've, I niche down to just offering SEO services and then, I mean, SEO is not very. Creatively fun. So it got really boring after a couple months, and uh, the Pinterest management agency again, I just got bored doing the same thing every single day. Um, yeah, with different clients and different accounts, but it was still the same. Basic to-do list and that really wasn't working for me. . So you are an introvert that has, uh, you know, that needs the stimulation and, you know, needs that creative outlet. And, you know, we're, we're very similar in that regard. Like, I need to my brain to be stimulated and to be able to be creative and solve problems and the routine, even though the routine and the rote kind of like same thing over and over again has. Is, uh, easier. Let's say it's for some of us, it's just, it doesn't work, right? Mm-hmm. . And so do you think that's what sort of drove you? If that's a high on your value structure, then I could see how that would drive you to try the next thing and try the next thing. Did you ever get that, get to that place where you were like, Oh, I don't have any business doing this, or, I don't know if I can, or, and how did you sort of work through those thoughts? Yeah, definitely. I, I still definitely have those thoughts. Sometimes when I have a new idea, I'll, I'll usually get really excited. I'll just have, usually when I'm trying to fall asleep is when I get my big ideas like, Oh, this, this would be an amazing thing to do or create. And then the next day when I start thinking about it, I start to question like, Oh, maybe I shouldn't do this. Maybe people won't sign up. Maybe, um, You know that somebody will sign up for something better. Um, one big example is kind of my, right now, my signature offer the Freelancer Society. So it's a, I call it a long term like group coaching. So we do weekly calls. Um, Mostly every week. Some weeks I'm just like, I, so I say at least three calls per month, but it, it has been weekly. But that gives me a little bit of flexibility to be like, No call this week. I'm not feeling it. . I don't wanna get on. Um, And then they also get access to all of my digital products, all of my courses, anything new, I create any group program I launch while they're active. So it in that regard, it was kind of similar to Lizzie's profitable playground with what's included. And when I created that, I was like, I can't charge as much as she does. I'm, I'm not her. I don't have as big of an audience, I feel like, and like, who am I to, to create something this big? Um, people aren't gonna pay for it. So how I decided on the price was like, okay, she charges. I think at the time it was a thousand dollars per month, I'm gonna charge half that , which wasn't really a good decision making process. Um, for me, especially now, like I'm changing it to add in a quarterly one to one call, so the price is going up. But I mean, I laugh now that that was my decision making process and getting stuck in my head about comparing myself again. Here's the thing is, is we have to start, we take the, we have to take the emotion out of pricing, first of all, because everybody attaches pricing to like your, your value. But when we think about pricing, like your pricing is just there to cause the right people to do the right thing and the wrong people to do nothing. And when we get so emotional about our pricing and know it's, it needs to be compared to someone else's pricing because blah, blah, blah. Then we end up shooting ourselves in the foot because our pricing will. Has to work for us. Like it has to do the work for us in signaling to your ideal clients that this is for them. Because if it's too cheap, they're gonna think, Oh, it's not for me, Right? Mm-hmm. . And if it's, you know, too expensive, then you'll, well, maybe you'll find a new, a new audience. But the point is, is that like pricing is such, is one of those places where I find a lot of people, introverts are not get stuck. Mm-hmm. . So you tried something. And then do you think the fact that you, you started with something that was comfortable, that's what allowed you to get started and then, you know, get in, get into it, get you mm-hmm. , get the feel for it, and then now you know you can grow. Yeah. I think that's a big thing for really any entrepreneur is to just give yourself, like, make fast decisions and just get something out there. Because offers will always evolve. Like you're not locked into anything that you say, like, I changed up the membership at what was, what's available to members monthly. Um, like I, I've ch now changed this up because I realize. You know, the, the people that had signed up, they really wanted extra one to one support. So I was like, Okay, let's add in a quarterly call, maybe a year from now. Maybe I'll decide to add like a one-on-one monthly call and increase the price a lot more. I don't know. Um, I think it's, it's okay to, like, you're allowed to be flexible and you're allowed to change your mind. And I mean, we make, we make the rules. It's okay to decide that something is no longer working for you, but it's like just. Get your idea out there right now, before, um, you know, you lose your, your energy and, and your passion for it. A hundred percent. I, I absolutely agree. And like, action is the antidote to all of the, the second guessing and all of the, you know, the, the stuff that we tell ourselves. And if we can just dip our toe in even just a little bit, it just changes that energy to forward momentum. And then, then we're in. So, um, I have a question that I ask everyone on the podcast, and this is, this podcast is all about kind of real stories being real. So what do you think is the difference between what we hear out in the business world and what's real in our business? I think there's a huge difference, especially on social media, which is. Kind of the reason why I ditched Instagram in May officially. Um, I, I feel like people share, and I'll, I'll say this, like a lot of people share numbers, which I mean, numbers are shiny, they're attractive, but I think it's like, at this point, I know when I see somebody sharing like, Oh, how I had a 50 k launch? I'm not just taking that at face value. I want to know how you did that. I want to know how long you've been in business, how big your audience is. Um, what was your last, How it cost you Yeah. How much it cost you. What, what, what's that increase over your last launch like, I, I think those. Numbers that that data behind the scenes data is so important to, to really take the shiny numbers at face value. Um, and that's something I've, I've really dug into. Like the people that I, that I follow, that I listen to, their advice, um, they're people that actually share the, the real numbers. And I think that's, that's a big testament to showing up as a real person in your business and not being afraid to. Not just flash shiny numbers at people. And, um, I mean, it does work, but it's not really, you're not really giving people the best, um, Real true expectations. So if they sign up for your program based on those shiny numbers, they're probably going to be disappointed. It's, it's totally true, and it's something that I have been advocating for a really long time because I always looked at, I come from, you know, 25 years as a business consultant and being inside of. Big businesses and small businesses in public sector and startups and all of it. And I just like, I look at a lot of this stuff and I'm just like, Come on. Right . And I think what, what it does is it sets unrealistic expectations, but here's the kicker. People buy based on just this little sliver of hope, right? They can probably logically tell that maybe this isn't the way that things are gonna go for me, or there's probably something else behind this. But what if, just what if. That's me too. Well, I'm going to put my money forward just to hang onto that little piece of hope. And that's where I think like more recently we're seeing a lot more education around that. And I just find like I see a lot of stuff out there and I just end up rolling my eyes because I'm just like mostly in ads on. Oh, I know. And it's so goofy. And I remember launching my first group program, you know, years ago. When I asked the people who didn't buy, why didn't they buy? They said, Oh, six months. That just seems like a really long time. I'm like, Oh, trust me. No matter what you go through, you're gonna just be getting started in six months. Like it's, it takes that long for for you to really, truly see change. And I knew that from working as a change manager inside of big organizations, and it was frustrating because there's just all this garbage out there about how quickly and, and like I think the business world is slowing down now and recognizing that that slowing down and, and being more realistic not only feels better, but is just, is more real. And we gotta stop beating ourselves up because we don't hit these goofy timelines that we hear. And, but you know, as long as there's a little bit of. Maybe , maybe it can be right. If you could, we're just coming up on time, but I just wanna ask you one more question. If you could, if you could impart some advice to those folks who are just starting out or who are kind of in it, Right? They're in the thick of it right now, and they're just kind of going, Oh, what's, what's sort of the most important thing that you've learned along your. I think the biggest and most important thing would probably be to take a step back. Um, really look at what you're doing. Look at the data. Is it actually working or is it just, if it's not working and it doesn't feel good, why are you still doing it? And, um, there are so many other ways that you can, whether it's nurturing your audience. Growing your audience. There are so many other ways that you can do both of those things. And if you're forcing yourself to do things that are not fun and are not enjoyable, that's just not going to be sustainable. And I think like what you just said about, you know, slow and sustainable growth and nothing happens overnight like that is. That is what you want. That is, I mean, it might be the SEO person talking in me, but I always love slow and steady growth. I don't want to snap my fingers and have overnight success because it can go away just as quickly. Um, so I think focusing on method, marketing methods that you love that are actually getting results. So check out the data, see if you, Time and energy spent is actually worthwhile. Um, and if not, then try new things and figure out a way to grow your business to make more money and to connect with the people that you wanna connect with. Yeah. Awesome. I love it. And I, I hope that that message continues to permeate out into the world. I think that we're hearing a lot more of it now, and then, you know, the, the appetite for the. You know, the six figures in six weeks starts to go away because it's just not there. . , Yes. I would love that. . So we're coming up on time. I wanna thank you so much for spending an hour with me today. Can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Yeah, so my website, the terra, um, primarily I'm hanging out on my email list. That's where I send all of the value and all of the great content. Um, so if you go to my resources page, I have about like 10 freebies that you can sign up for. So sign up for any one of them and he'll be on my email list. Awesome. And we'll put all the links in the show notes and make sure that everyone can find you on all of your very vibrant social media channels. ? Yes. They're very quiet. Awesome. Thank you so much. Well, I know that I have a ton of inter introverts in, I was gonna try and say the word introvert printer, but I, I can't , I have a ton of intra. Intranets introverts in my audience that are gonna really appreciate what you are doing for them. And the fact that you're providing community for our, uh, much less celebrated business owners that should be celebrated. So thank you so much. Um, and that's a wrap. So I wanna thank you for taking the time today. And I'm so happy that we had the opportunity to chat with you and hear more about how your business came to be, all the experimentation you did, all your experiences along the way, and what the future holds for you. And thank you for tuning into this episode of Real People Real Business Show, where we get to get the real entrepreneurial stories and journeys that you can relate to. Show notes, resources, and links from this episode are available on my website and social media platforms. So thanks again for joining us today. If you've enjoyed today's content, I would love for you to give us a review on whatever platform you're on to help us share these genuine stories with an even bigger audience. Until next time, you keep building, keep dreaming and keep being real.